The text is auto generated, so sorry if there are some odd translations…
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[Music]
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welcome to this edition of when the
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biomass hits the wind turbine a
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discussion of sustainable living and
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what that means to you and me I’m Jay Warmke
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and I’m Annie Warmke and today we’re gonna
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talk about getting started in the
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business of goats or what to do before
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you invite those little sociopaths onto
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your farm as you can tell I love oh
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that’s why you’re not getting and the
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goats love me right no they don’t no
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they actually don’t actually so so Annie
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tell me you’re the goat farmer you’re
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the farmer you’re the you’re the goat
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herder goat herder yes I’m I’m the
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person who herds the goats two goats
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heard they live as or heard yes they do
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okay all right and what’s your
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experience with your herd good so tell
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me I mean I don’t I look at you and be
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serious because everything coming out of
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your mouth is sociopath they’re hanging
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around a little slider they’re smoking
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cigarettes behind the barn and they’re
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everywhere they’re talking about how
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they can like steal my hubcaps or
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supervise you when you’re trying to fix
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something yes that’s true yeah all right
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so so the thing that really is super
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super important if you’re thinking about
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going into keeping goats is that you’ve
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got to have a plan and I know I say that
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about almost everything we talked about
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and that plan has to incorporate a
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variety of things if you’re going to get
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it right and it’s unfortunate because
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most people think you just go get the
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animal it shows up everything’s cool so
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they go to the auction and they don’t
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know anything about goats and I like
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buying a bunny rabbit at Easter right no
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it’s probably worse than that well
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reminds me like when I was a kid and you
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went to the fair and you won a goldfish
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and they give it to you in a little
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plastic bag now where are you going but
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I had no Bowl I had no idea how you care
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for a goldfish yeah and fish are not the
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same as you go
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either so this is the challenge but they
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die quicker well maybe they need they
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need oxygen and they use up all the
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oxygen in the bag then they are gonna
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croak so so let me just back up before I
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go into what’s needed for the basic so
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this is just part one of a series that
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we’re gonna do and and so I don’t want
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to get too far ahead of myself but I got
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into the business of goats because I
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went to a workshop put on by the Ohio
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food and farm the Ohio education food
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and farm Association and they had a
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person there from the Western a price
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Foundation and Western a price was a
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dentist in the 30s who began to believe
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that health the reason people didn’t
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have healthy teeth and didn’t have help
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is because they didn’t eat the right
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foods and so he went around the world
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and he looked at different cultures that
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didn’t have a major highway so they
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weren’t bringing in white sugar or white
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flour or any of those kinds of things
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which is pretty forward-thinking 1930s
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and what he found was that people had
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sacred foods that women ate when they
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were pregnant they didn’t eat food that
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was bad for them they ate a balanced
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diet in terms of what their culture was
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about and they and and they had health
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and they did not have food decay teeth
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decay and they did not brush their teeth
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so he gathered pictures and he took
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pictures of faces and all that stuff and
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then he came back a number of years
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later and the highways had come and he
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took photos again and people were
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riddled with tooth decay the jaw was
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much more narrow than it had been and
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there were a lot of other things and he
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concluded that highways caused that
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highways brought things that destroyed
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cultural okay so so why was this getting
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us okay so these goddess two goats
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because one of the things that he
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determined was the value of raw milk and
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so was sitting there hearing all this
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and it was very
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fascinating to me because I loved that
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whole bit and I thought well this is
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something I could do for my family so I
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set out to find raw milk which I could
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have bought an Uzi better than I could
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buy the raw milk and so I ended up
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driving one hour one way to the middle
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of nowhere to buy raw milk from a woman
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who you would not have eaten in her
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kitchen but the milk was well taken care
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of and then eventually I bought a goat
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Eleanor Rigby and she had two kids and
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that was the beginning of my herd and so
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I was nervous you know I didn’t know how
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to trim hooves I I do remember milking a
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goat once not once but in high school
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but I was nervous it’s kind of like the
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first thing you’re gonna have a baby and
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you can’t remember how to give it a bath
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kind of thing but I wasn’t prepared I I
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know we were not prepared I was just
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thinking I’ll get it right because I’m
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really smart about animals and I’ll
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figure it out and I did read a couple of
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books but still so anyway so that’s been
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15 years ago and over the last 15 years
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I have learned a lot obviously I’ve
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written a couple books about goat
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natural goat care and the business of
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goats and and I have spent a lot of time
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I teach goat college at Blue Rock
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station doing a lot of things with
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people helping them with goat health and
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so I’ve learned a lot and the one great
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thing about goats in spite of your
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opinion of them is that every day they
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provide some mystery some thing
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fascinating something interesting and
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and so me as a person who’s easily bored
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finds them really great to be with and
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they’re great animal as far as for women
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because you can make them do what you
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want them to do and they can step on
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your foot and it’s not going to break
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your ankle though the one thing I know
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that they’re good at is letting you know
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any weaknesses in your fencing they’re
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good at showing you a lot of things and
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that’s some of their value and some of
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their irritating behavior well if you
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were thinking about getting into raising
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goats I know you’re now a resident
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expert
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with your with your goats but if you’re
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out there thinking about getting into
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goats what would be the first thing that
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you would do what would be your first
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very first thing
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the very very first thing you need to do
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is to know what that land has been used
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for so if there’s any kind of brownfield
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or poisoning or anything like that
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you’re in you’re going to be in trouble
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because they’re very very susceptible to
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whatever might be well any and any
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residual even you so even you know well
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as a human being so the grass probably
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so maybe not it might be even even just
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the spring but here’s the thing you want
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to do a soil test and because you want
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to know what that soil is going to tell
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you about that land and I recommend
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using group out of Michigan called crop
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services and the reason I do is because
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I did use OSU Extension and they had me
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send my samples to Pennsylvania and the
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stuff that came back was not
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comprehensive enough to show me trace
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minerals and the things that really make
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a difference with the health of the soil
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and the plants and then how the animal
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benefits from that health so crop
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services is gonna do you proud you pay
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em one fee they advise you they don’t
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charge more for that and then they’re
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gonna tell you what needs to be sprayed
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or what needs to be used on that and
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what needs to be what seeds need to be
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sown to expand the plant varieties there
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and plants that are going to help you
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with parasite control and they’re going
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to tell you how to up the microbes in
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the soil which is going to help control
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parasites and help the plants to grow
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and really flourish and without that you
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are just it’s just hit or miss and you
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may think you’ve got a really great
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pasture and you test that soil and it’s
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really devoid of any kind of health for
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the ant okay so step number one figure
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out your pasture well and and treat it
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and make it make it healthy but but as
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we’re driving to beautiful downtown
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Athens Ohio today we went by some people
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who had goats some people who had llamas
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and and these animals were kept in
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conditions where I don’t care how
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healthy the soil had been
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it was not healthy now I mean how much
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space does one of these animals need
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because these guys were eaten down to
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the nubbins they were they were in the
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dirt well so so that’s exactly the
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opposite of where we need to be and
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space requirements are something totally
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different and so each livestock animal
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has different space requirements and you
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can look up online at the ASPCA and they
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have humane guidelines and for each
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animal so even bison
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I don’t know guinea pigs whatever you’re
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raising you can see what’s the space
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requirement what’s I always get those
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two confused bikes we crossbreed them
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okay so so so in order to know what the
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space requirements are well but with
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your goats I mean I don’t I don’t know
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what they say is obviously the the
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richness of the land is going to impact
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that but if you had an ideal situation
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how many goats per acre or how many
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acres per goat would you would you look
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for so that’s not the question I would
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ask the question I want to ask is how so
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first of all I need to have a fence that
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is able to create a barrier for that
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animal so it cannot hurt itself so it
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can’t get out it can’t get its head
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stuck whatever that’s going to be so
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that’s the next step after you do the
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testing but then I also need to be able
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to move those animals to two different
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paddocks so I need to create pretty
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small paddocks so that when they’re
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eating that pasture they’re only eating
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down to maybe about 12 to 18 inches into
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the plant so that plants always going to
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stay at 12 to 18 inches because the
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lower that plant is eaten the longer it
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takes to recover so when you remove a
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goat from a pasture it’s gonna still
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look pretty lush it should you know
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unlike like cattle or whatever where
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they they tend to graze it down pretty
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well and they shouldn’t either
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although cows cows and steers after
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their two don’t get parasite
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so that’s why they can live that way
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because after their – in America don’t
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live very long no well well but that’s a
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whole different thing but so what we’re
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talking about is not to let the animal
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eat down where the parasites live and
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they only live on grass blades so it’s
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really not the size of the pasture it’s
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more how you how you run the animals
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within the past yeah so you would
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recommend creating smaller subsections
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of a pasture letting them graze within
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that subsection for a brief period of
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time right maybe no it might be
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depending what you want to have is small
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enough past paddocks so that they’re
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gonna eat everything and they won’t just
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concentrate on one area and if they’re
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only eating on one area then you make
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the paddocks smaller so you want to be
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able to move that animal as soon as that
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paddock gets down to that lowest point
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that you’ve decided and then you let it
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rest for a period of time six to eight
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weeks so so you’d need a lot so if
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you’re leaving them on there for a week
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you’d need six of these at least yeah
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yeah and what you’re doing is letting
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the plant rejuvenate itself you’re also
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getting past the parasite cycles so the
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eggs that are laid have nowhere to go
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but to die
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so that answers the question about how
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many because you could have quite a
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number of goats but you could just keep
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moving and moving and moving them but
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that depends on what you want that
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animal for so it’s a pretty intensive
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fencing project before the first animal
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gets brought to the so you’d really have
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to know what you’re doing which most
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people don’t
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I mean we’ve met a lot of folks who come
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to Blue Rock station and they say yeah I
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want to get in there whole ideas I’ll
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just tie them up in the backyard put a
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little robot yeah like a concrete block
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and yeah I can tell from our goats that
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would work real well well they also
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think they’re lawnmowers and really a
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goat does not want to eat pasture they
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want to eat fibrous things they need
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that for their room and to be healthy
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for the they have four compartments in
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their stomach and that requires roughage
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so and though everything about their
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system is set up to deal with things
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like floribunda rose and honeysuckle and
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bark and any kind of bramble so that’s
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that’s where the help is for them okay
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well you are listening to when the
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biomass hits the wind turbine with Jay
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and Annie Warmke reminding you once
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again it is the end of the world as we
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know it and thank God thank God it’s the
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end of the world and here come the goats
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so we’re talking about goats and we’re
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talking about how to get into business
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with goats and we’ve already established
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that there’s a lot of preparation work
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that goes into raising goats before you
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ever get the first goat right so you’ve
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got a Kevin bullet-proof pastures
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fencing establish series of smaller
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paddocks you’ve got to make sure that
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the soil is healthy so you do an
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evaluation as a soil more plant variety
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watering I assume the rain the rain
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helps well they have to have clean water
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and clean feed they are pretty fussy I
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mean there’s this like stereotype go to
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leek tin cans go to lead anything and
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they really don’t I mean these guys are
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the finicky eaters of the animal kingdom
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so I think the next step and perhaps
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this is the first step but I don’t think
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it is I think you create these pastor
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paddocks you understand the soil and the
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health of the pasture plants and then I
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think you’ve got to go to goat college
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wherever that is because no matter how
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much you study and read no matter how
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many YouTube videos you look at you you
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need to go where people can help you to
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put hands on and learn about natural
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care because one of the situations that
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we have in this country is that most
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people that go to veterinary school are
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not trained in the world of goats in
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fact goats are not researched hardly at
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all in this country and so the normal
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vet does not know or understand that
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goat which is strange since goats are
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one of the oldest and most Katy yeah
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animal but I guess that’s in countries
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where
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veterinarians don’t practice perhaps so
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so it comes back to a lot of things that
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we talked about and that is that if I’m
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going to be knowledgeable about this I’m
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going to do a better job of it and
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that’s not to say the vet does not have
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a position in this they do because they
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know about good drugs they at least then
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for animals as well and they and they
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certainly understand the anatomy but
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they don’t understand the the scenarios
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of how goats live and work and play and
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get sick so so I feel like if you go
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someplace where somebody’s going to
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teach you how to trim those hooks going
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to teach you the psychology of those
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animals because that is going to help
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you more than anything to help them stay
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healthy and and do well and also teaches
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you some basic natural remedies for how
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to help that animal to overcome a lot of
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common things that happen to goats then
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you’re gonna be a more confident person
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setting out into the world of goat
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herding and this is before you ever
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think about making money because is
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there is there such a thing as making
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money from goats
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I think there is a possibility to make
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money but it cannot be you’re living
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right well I know there’s a lot of
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investment in the animal and not in the
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animal per se but in in the facilities
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to keep the animal as we’ve talked about
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the fencing is is a big investment
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shelter for the animal is a big
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investment because goats don’t like the
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rain they have to have shelter and it’s
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only inhumane not to provide it and and
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what you’ve started doing with the with
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the little platforms so they can sleep
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up off the ground to keep them away from
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parasites to keep them away keep them
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comfortable keep them warm
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you know electric blankets are expensive
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the goat jacuzzi
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you know that’s another thing you’ve got
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invested so so when I think about
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observing how our animals are kept
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there’s a lot of infrastructure that
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goes into that
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and and then there’s a lot of time labor
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that you put in so the animal themselves
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is the least of the investment you know
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I think most people think when they’re
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raising livestock okay well I’m gonna go
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out and I’m gonna buy a goat and it
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might be $100 or $200 or whatever that’s
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a drop in the bucket right it’s the
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infrastructure and the time so if you’re
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gonna invest this kind of time you want
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to keep that good alive and healthy so
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you were just touching on some of the
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things about about health but a lot of
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the farmers we’ve talked about I just
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remember one guy saying yeah well that
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goat was just looking for a place to die
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and I and I was thinking well he was
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feeding him bread I know I mean your
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your animal husbandry was almost making
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that inevitable that they not mine yes I
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never fed bread no so so I think that’s
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something before somebody gets involved
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in this they better be prepared for the
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investment in time and infrastructure
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well and it can be done gradually I mean
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you can start out with two goats and
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like I just did a consulting visit
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yesterday with a family that it has
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bought a farm and they want to have
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livestock and they want to have goats
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and so one of the things that we talked
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about was starting out with some
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weathers and weathers our our goats that
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have been castrated so next spring they
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could come and buy three or four males
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that have been castrated and then they
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have a acre of pasture and they can
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spend the warm months getting used to
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how these goats live and work together
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and they and so they will only have had
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to create enough pasture fencing for
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that one acre and they don’t have to
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have paddocks because it’s wooded and so
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it’s a very natural environment but so
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then if they make mistakes those
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weathers are going to be a lot more
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expendable and I hate to say it that way
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but I don’t like it when people buy milk
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goats from me and they take them and
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they don’t take care of them and and you
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know they end up dying
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well the milk goats are a whole
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another area of care you’ve got to deal
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with the milking and some people just
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simply don’t have a lifestyle that
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allows them to to milk in the morning
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and in the evening that doesn’t stop
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people and that’s the point so if we
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start out really small and we say look
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we want to try this let’s start with
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some weathers let’s see how you interact
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with them let’s see how you learn the
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psychology of how all of that works with
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health and their personality and and
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then move on from there that way there
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is a very small investment compared to
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what they need to do in order to have
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healthy goats and again people will say
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to me well what kind of goat should I
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should I have what’s the best goat and I
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say the one you like the looks of
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because if you like the looks of that
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animal whether she’s an Alpine or a
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seinen or a tog and Berg whatever she is
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you’re going to give her the benefit of
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the doubt when something’s wrong versus
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a goat that is driving you crazy and it
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it’s not handsome or pretty to you so I
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feel pretty strongly about that I’ve
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seen people interact that way with kids
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I see people enter that way with their
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dogs and so let’s like the looks of the
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animal when you see kids with their
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children know I mean there’s yes I do
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and then what do we want that animal to
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do to make us money so I don’t want to
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really get into that except to say it’s
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one of two things either they’re going
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to be meat animals or they’re going to
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be milk animals and so the other thing
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is that you may decide I just want to
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buy some Weathers and I’m gonna have
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them clear the understory of my forest
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okay that’s a job right there that’s
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something you could do to make a living
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that but that’s another part in this
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series that we’re going to talk about
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one thing I want to say excuse me is
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that there are there is money out there
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for grants from different groups some of
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the groups that focus on human are not
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human but animal husbandry animal rights
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humane treatment do have to offer grants
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for things like
22:22
fencing and water and because water is a
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big deal it’s got to be clean as we
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mentioned and there’s got to be easy
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access or you as the farmer are gonna
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get a lot of exercise carrying it and
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run out of water
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you know when the animal runs out of
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water she can’t digest your food so you
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don’t want that to happen and then and
22:41
the water thing is a little bit more
22:43
complicated than I would have guessed
22:45
because I never would have imagined you
22:48
know if you just hang a bucket of clean
22:51
water out it’s not gonna remain clean
22:53
very long with a goat
22:55
well they’ve eating hay and they decide
22:57
to need a drink so they drop some hay in
22:59
there and then that rots right or they
23:01
love to back up to it and poop it’s down
23:04
low enough so when there are babies we
23:06
have to have the buckets lower but then
23:08
also they can’t have frozen water so in
23:10
the winter you’ve got to have heated
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water buckets and you’ve got to keep
23:15
water in there so that they have water
23:17
and they’re very thirsty in the summer
23:19
when it’s too hot and very thirsty in
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the winter when it’s too cold and I know
23:23
we tried to teach them those little
23:24
water nipple things that the pigs seem
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to figure out right away but the goats
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never did that so there’s no tray of
23:32
water it’s just they won’t get water on
23:35
demand but the goats just found that
23:37
very offensive well they don’t want to
23:39
they don’t want to touch that after the
23:41
other goat has touched that with their
23:43
mouth because it’s I wouldn’t want to
23:45
either it’s contaminated they won’t eat
23:48
so if a goat takes a bite of a leaf and
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doesn’t take it or even licks it or
23:53
touches it with some part of their body
23:55
they they won’t take that either they’ll
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leave it so one thing we have had good
24:00
luck with is a project we’re working on
24:02
to use goat manure to heat water in the
24:07
winter time and we taught them how to
24:09
access the buckets that the water will
24:12
be in and it has a flap on it so we made
24:14
these prototypes with cardboard and
24:16
showed them how to use them and goats
24:18
are very very intelligent and right away
24:21
they understood only the buck and the
24:23
llama could not figure it out and
24:25
finally the buck figured it out by
24:27
watching all the girls do it and but
24:29
they got it right away that’s how I
24:30
figured out most things watching the
24:33
girls at least
24:36
please to be doing at the time I was
24:38
doing research and speaking of research
24:40
and getting an education okay where
24:43
would you get an education where would
24:45
you find out all this because there’s a
24:46
lot of stuff that you’re mentioning here
24:48
that you need to know well there are
24:50
lots and lots of books out there and I
24:52
would say start with a book that isn’t
24:54
very deep doesn’t go into a lot of deep
24:58
deep deep deep the books I read aren’t
25:02
very deep well I know that’s a whole
25:04
different category of book
25:06
so we’re carry star from Cherokee valley
25:12
bison ranch and I are getting ready to
25:13
release a book called the business of
25:15
goat herding and we just tried to talk
25:19
talk talk on a lot of different topics
25:21
like marketing and couch couch not
25:24
[Laughter]
25:26
raising money I’ll say it that way
25:29
crowdsourcing and and and how to brand
25:32
your your products and all that kind of
25:35
stuff so we’re going to talk we talked
25:36
about that we talked about fencing and a
25:39
couple of things about parasites and so
25:42
we’re just touching on things and I
25:44
think this is really the kind of book
25:46
that I needed when I first started out
25:47
because I didn’t know what all this
25:50
stuff meant but when it’s simple and
25:51
it’s just touching on it then you can go
25:53
online and the big library and this guy
25:56
on the internet you can look up anything
25:58
another book that I like is I can’t
26:02
remember the title of it but it’s my
26:03
go-to Bible really and it’s all about
26:06
herbal medicinal herbs and how to use
26:09
them to heal and work on a lot of
26:11
different problems with goats and and I
26:14
do have a lot of goat books but the ones
26:15
that I really focus on are ones that are
26:18
pretty simple and I don’t really want to
26:20
know everything I just want to
26:22
understand what I need to do when
26:23
there’s an issue and you do you teach a
26:26
goat college I do guro station goat
26:28
college which is actually this weekend
26:30
and we we hold it hopefully you’re
26:34
listening to this 94 otherwise it was
26:38
last weekend a year ago or something but
26:41
we do go to college a couple times a
26:42
year once in the spring and once in the
26:44
fall and and and the goal of that is
26:48
just to give people a little bit
26:49
a little of that but also the
26:51
opportunity to connect with those
26:53
animals so they understand is this
26:55
something I really want to do I remember
26:57
this guy said to me he they already had
27:00
goats and he said you wash the buckets
27:03
out every time you feed and it’s like
27:06
yeah and he said well that’s too much
27:08
work well okay it’s not too much work if
27:11
it helps them to stay healthy so and we
27:14
can talk about that more next time in
27:16
the next part of the series but the
27:18
reality is goats are amazing creatures
27:21
and they provide a variety of products
27:23
that have the ability to generate income
27:26
and we’ll talk about that next time as
27:28
well okay so any final final thought
27:32
real quick before we finish up here well
27:34
just to say don’t let Jay warm key ever
27:36
manager heard because one time we I had
27:41
to go to France and when I came back the
27:43
buck was with one of the young doe
27:45
Ling’s and he said well I didn’t know
27:47
that it wasn’t a boy and I had to teach
27:51
him anatomy that day I don’t even know
27:55
how to respond thank you I’m glad to say
28:00
you’ve been listening to win the biomass
28:03
it’s the wind turbine with Jay and Annie
28:05
Warmke thank you very much for
28:07
spending just a little bit of time with
28:09
us and not bringing your goat with you
28:11
and as your grandmother hopefully you
28:15
said to you the secret to a happy and
28:17
sustainable life is play nice with
28:20
others learn anatomy in school clean up
28:23
your own mess and eat your vegetables
28:25
today warm key all right I will
28:28
until next
28:29
[Music]
28:41
[Music]
28:58
you can find more information on living
29:01
sustainably in our unsustainable world
29:03
at Blue Rock station calm
29:05
[Music]