The text is auto generated, so sorry if there are some odd translations…
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welcome to this edition of Wendell
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biomass it’s the wind turbine a
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discussion of sustainable living and
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what that means to you and me I’m Jay Warmke
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and I’m Annie Warmke and today
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we’re gonna talk about raising healthy
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goats part three or okay I knew that was
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gonna be well-received I was very
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worried about how that was coming out so
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okay so that is the topic today raising
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wheels yodeling or raising healthy good
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I don’t know if you don’t have enough to
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fill it all going to a second course
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okay so let’s let’s talk about raising
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goats for those folks who are interested
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in such things like the lonely goatherd
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tell me a little bit about the basic
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basic humane care of goats because we we
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hear so much about livestock today as a
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commodity and I think people forget that
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these are living breathing beasts right
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I’m not sure we even know it I think you
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know when people have animals in their
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life it could be a mouse that they have
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in a cage or it could be I don’t know an
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elephant in the backyard but it’s I
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don’t know the people you know okay well
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I see this stuff online okay so just to
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say that people we we are a culture of
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of animals in our lives so it could be
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personal pets it could be livestock that
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we raise for food it could be any kind
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of situation but I feel there’s a
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difference between a pet and livestock
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okay if you go online and you look at
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some of these sites that look at
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inhumane treatment you will see that
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there’s very little difference that many
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many animals being abandoned they aren’t
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being neutered they I know you can be
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inhumane to an animal for sure but I
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guess for some reason in my mind there
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is a distinction between a pet and there
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is a distinction between livestock I
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mean people do consume meat and people
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do that some cultures eat dogs and cats
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doesn’t bother me so much I think when
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we put something into a category and we
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save that category is okay and so we’re
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gonna protect that one but that Kevin
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category like in livestock it doesn’t
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matter as much I think it’s wrong so
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that’s why the word humane why I like to
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use the word humane because in order for
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an animal and particularly we’re talking
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about goats today to receive humane care
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there are just a few basic things but
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they’re very powerful and one is that we
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are responsible for their health to
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create an environment that promotes
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health and we’re responsible for helping
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them to fight off disease and parasites
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and again that is almost always
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environment we have to provide them with
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daily ration of food that is unique to
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their own nutrition level and their own
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lifestyle and then also we also need to
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consider not only the diet but vitamins
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and mineral requirements and that all
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contributes to their health
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so goats are unique in terms of the
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requirements that they have they need to
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be provided with feed or forage and
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forage really is not eating grass it is
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eating a lot of broad leafy plants
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things like honeysuckle and what we call
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brambles so raspberries and different
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thorny plants they like to eat bark off
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of trees so and leaves so they’re really
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foragers and they eat a little of this
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and a little of that and they need that
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high fiber in order for the rumen which
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is the what they call the stomach
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chambers to function appropriately and
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so they need to have the right quantity
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of food and the right type of food and
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the right kind of food they also need to
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be able to live in the right condition
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so goats don’t like to be where they’re
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getting wet or snowed on they don’t like
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to be in a draught when it’s cold
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outside so they need voluntary access to
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pasture
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an outside exercise but they also need
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shelter that protects them so things
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like that they also need to have hay and
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maybe silage that is protected from
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rodents and other animals and this is
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really humane because they won’t eat
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feed that’s dirty well and I’ve also
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noticed they’re pretty I mean goats are
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pretty prissy as you’re describing them
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you know they don’t want to go out and
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get the wet they don’t want this there
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they’re very they’re very fussy and
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that’s the opposite of what a lot of the
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character character of a goat but they
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also waste a lot of their a lot of their
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feet well I think they don’t waste feed
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that tastes really super good and so
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maybe the quality of hay doesn’t have so
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most of the time a goat should be fed
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the first cutting of a hay field and
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that’s where all the flour heads and the
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seed heads are so the less that material
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is in that hay the less they’re going to
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eat of it and isn’t the first cutting
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usually considered the less quality for
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for horse people and right right but
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they have a different stomach and
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because all the junk you’re clearing out
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all the junk and just letting the grass
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for the second third great idea but
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horses are hay animals they’re not for
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each animal no so this is good for goat
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herders you can get the cheap stuff you
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know yeah well but if if you’re really
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thinking about it it’s not the cheap
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stuff because it’s really nutritional
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and so the less nutrition that’s in it
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then the less than the more they’re
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gonna waste and so also when we look at
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kids goat kids we know that they
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shouldn’t be weaned before six weeks so
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they’re getting milk whether hopefully
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it’s their their mother’s milk or their
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dams milk but it could be some kind of
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supplement and they also need to be
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offered dry feeds such as hay at about
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two weeks of age but you would hope they
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start nibbling on it right away so those
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are some things about the basics of
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humane care well and I was gonna you
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just reminded me when you’re talking
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about getting mother’s milk right at the
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beginning I wasn’t aware until I started
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hanging around you when you were raising
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goats the importance of colostrum and
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getting that first bit of milk when it
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must have that yeah but I
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I think in a lot of the ways that
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animals are raised they don’t get that
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okay so so that first milk and there’s
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different people have different views on
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this but in that first 24 to 48 hours of
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that animal’s life they need to have the
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milk that the dam is producing and that
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has what’s called colostrum and that has
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the ability to give that new baby all of
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the immunity to disease and different
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problems that the mother has so if so
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you can buy colostrum substitute or you
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could offer colostrum from another breed
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of an animal that produces milk like a
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cow but either way what we’re really
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saying is we need to understand how this
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animal operates and in order to be
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humane we need to take care of it
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properly and that could be said of a dog
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or a cat most people try to take good
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care of those things but they may not
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know very much about the health of a dog
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or a cat and so they do things that are
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inhumane but in a benevolent way and
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it’s too bad so with goats we don’t want
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to be the exception we’ve made an
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investment in this animal emotionally
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and financially and so let’s be humane
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and if we if you have questions about
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that there are all kinds of groups
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online that will tell you all about what
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to do with to connect with different why
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I’m struggling for words but so just
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look up humane care livestock you main
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care you’re talking about humane care as
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a concept but then there are also
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various certification programs that is
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to the fact that you are in fact yeah is
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the standard so what are some of those
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well there’s a the Humane Society the
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American Humane Society and you can go
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on their website the ASPCA org and they
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will for each species of animals show
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you Humane strategy for each animal
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bison all the way down to goats chickens
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whatever and then also their local
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statewide organic farm groups that do
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certifications they don’t always include
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humane treatment but I think some of
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them do and and then there’s a group
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called fact V FA CT dot org that has
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some certifications that are a lot more
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basic than the ASPCA and I think you had
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raised about these humane for that
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species because I think a lot of people
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make the mistake of humanizing the
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animals and thinking something that they
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would like would also be good for the
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animal and that’s not always the case
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I’m thinking specifically like with when
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we were raising llamas and people think
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because they have all of this wool
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they’re going to be hot in the
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summertime and as a result there were
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actually laws that said you had to shave
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them and yet our experience well llamas
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don’t cool themselves like humans they
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deal from their bellies and the bottoms
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of their feet so I don’t have any wolf
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yeah yeah actually they don’t but by
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shaving them you expose their skin to
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all sorts of parasites and and bugs and
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biting animals and so so in order to be
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humane because they look hot you’re
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actually making them more miserable I’m
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not sure it’s even that they look hot I
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think it’s more that they want a show
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animal and so the show animal people are
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controlling the rules so I was being
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kind
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that’s a good example though so another
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part of being humane has to do with that
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herd manager that goat owner that person
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who’s going to be in charge of taking
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care of the goats and there are a lot of
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good books out there in fact I have a
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brand new book called the business of
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goat herding and it’s going to be on
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sale starting tomorrow and so hey go for
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it shameless plug I don’t care but there
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are lots of podcasts and we do have a
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podcast series that we’re producing
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right now and this is one part of it but
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YouTube videos webinars all kinds of
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things a plethora of information out
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there
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lots and lots of goat books and not one
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single one of them is all that great
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except of course mine is super good well
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yes but so what I want to talk about is
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a little bit about the basics of
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planning and awareness for herd managers
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because it is ignorant it is ignorant
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that causes so much of the bad things
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that happen in the livestock world so
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kidding having an a if you’re going to
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have an animal reproduce on your farm or
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in your life you really need to know
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what are some of the problems that can
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happen I’ve seen photos online where
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people will say this goats been in labor
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for seven hours and it’s been like this
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for five hours and it has a leg sticking
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out this animal is in so much pain and
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the kid is dead and it’s totally out of
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ignorance so we need to have information
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and understand what to do when we need
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to give colostrum how to avoid problems
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with bad goat mother’s because they do
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exist and what we’re going to do about
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it and then what is appropriate care for
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the newborn kid injections how do we
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give injections unfortunately in this
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country in rural areas the vets are not
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very knowledgeable or at all
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knowledgeable about goats so we need to
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be somewhat of veterinarian in terms of
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our care for for goats well and I’ve
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also seen that with the vets oftentimes
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the charges that they have for very
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simple routines are three or four times
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the value of the animal it just doesn’t
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make any sense to you know pay $300 to
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treat a $50 goat well or the other thing
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is to load that animal up into a vehicle
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and they’re already sick or injured and
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so you’re adding to the stress and you
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could actually kill the animal from the
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stress so so learning some of the basics
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of how to care for that animal it just
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makes you a better herd manager and more
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confident and also more connected with
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that animal as psychologically so when
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something goes wrong you know learning
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how to do drenching in the goat world
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that really basically says that you’re
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going to
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get liquid down that animals throat for
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some reason or another and how to do
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that where to put that syringe or
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whatever you’re using where to put that
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in the mouth and down the throat so it
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goes to the right rumen so you can’t be
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shy with working with our timid with
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these animal no but unfortunately lots
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of people are not confident and that’s
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what the challenge is also dehorning and
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this is quite accomplished controversial
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issue in the world of goats because the
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goats have horns almost all goats will
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have horns and horns if you study this
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issue you’ll see that the horns are
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really important to that animal for
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sometimes protection they contain
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hormones and minerals they help the
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animal to heat and cool itself naturally
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and also to scratch itself and break up
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bales of hay and all kinds of things so
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understanding how you feel about that
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and then if you do plan to dehorn
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finding a humane way which I believe
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would be to use a veterinarian and to I
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noticed when you stopped debugging or
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dehorning the goats they seemed to put
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on weight faster and just generally
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appear healthier what part of the
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challenge is when we were just budding
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them that it really sets them back
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because it’s not a true dough it’s not a
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bit it’s brutal it goes all the way it
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burns all the way to the skull and
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sometimes if the vet makes a mistake
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there’ll be a fever and it’s just a
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really really traumatic thing for the
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animal well speaking of trauma you’re
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listening to when the biomass hits the
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wind turbine with Jay and Annie Warmke
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reminding you that it is indeed the end
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of the world as we know it and thank God
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thank God so today we’re actually
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speaking about goats being a goat herder
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the business of goats with the number
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one expert on goats the goat whisperer
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so so you were just talking about the
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role of a goat herder Girt herd manager
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a Girt herd manager turd man okay
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mm-hmm I’ve aspired to that uh-huh so so
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carry on well I just want to say I don’t
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think I’m exactly an expert I go to
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Rumia remind me almost daily how little
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I do know about them but I find them to
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be incredibly intriguing and inspiring
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and I like being a goat herder and
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awfully lot so the next thing I want to
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talk about is castration because when
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you have when you have male animals then
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you have to think about is this a male
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animal that we’re going to utilize for
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reproduction and in the goat world there
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are too many males so what we do is say
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look we don’t care how good that goat
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looks he doesn’t really have much of a
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chance to be a buck for another herd so
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we’re gonna ban him which is a process
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of putting a really sturdy rubber band
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with a special tool up against the top
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of the scrotum which is the sacs
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for the testicles and it doesn’t hurt
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them it just squeezes off the blood
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supply and then we keep track of what’s
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going on in that area to make sure
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there’s nothing wrong and over time it
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take maybe four to six weeks for the
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sack to dry up and fall off and then we
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have what’s called a webber and he has a
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great chance of living beyond just being
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a butchered animal because then he can
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be trained to do things like holopax so
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he could go hiking with somebody he can
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be trained to work with kids we’ve had
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several people come and buy goats
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because we have a good reputation for
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the temperament of our goats and you
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spoiled them rotten mmm I don’t think I
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spoiled them but I have a lot of respect
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for them and I like to be with them and
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they each have a respected name so
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they’re not called some weird raspberry
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name there they have the first letter of
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their mother’s name so Grace’s daughter
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this time round was named Guinea and and
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then her son is named George so what
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basically doing is saying well let me
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you brushed over that but one of the
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reasons you do that is to keep track of
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who is related to whom so that if you
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then when you go to breed them again you
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want to you want to keep the genetics
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mixed up pretty pretty nicely well
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that’s a good point in that we we try to
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keep good records so we know who’s bred
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with whom and what the outcome of that
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was and every good goat herder should be
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keeping as good as possible I mean I’m
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not the best record keeper but I do know
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who’s begat who and what things have
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gone wrong and what things have gone
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right well one of the reasons why we’re
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incorporating this other than the fact
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that we do raise goats is when you talk
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about sustainability goats are a great
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animal for the small homesteader I mean
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essentially they take up less less land
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they do less damage to the land than say
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cattle providing dairy products
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providing meat if that’s what you’re
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raising them for so I I think I’m trying
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to draw this back a little bit to say
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for for a sustainable animal to raise
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his livestock goats or goats are pretty
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much right up there at the top of the
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list and they’re poo is very evenly
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balanced in the potassium phosphorus and
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nitrogen it’s what we all want as
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balanced poo okay well let’s another
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show Jay let’s stick with this one oh my
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gosh where do we go from here so anyway
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in terms of the weather’s we want to
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have an animal that is really sweet and
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weather’s once they are castrated as the
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vet told me once they think about grass
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not asked and they are so sweet and so
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adoring of humans for the most part so
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then the other thing would we come to is
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milk procedures milking procedures and
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if you’re going to milk an animal how’s
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that all going to happen and how are you
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safely going to put that animal on a
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stand and how are you gonna handle the
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milk and what will you do with the milk
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and what will you do when you have too
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much again this is all about humane care
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and it’s very much connected to
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sustainability because if I don’t
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to have these things sorted out for
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those animals that are in my life
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I’m wasting their potential I’m wasting
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resources and I am not I’m not being
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honoring of the gifts of these animals
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that they bring to our culture in our
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life well it strikes me that goats are
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creatures of habit as well and part of
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the humanity of it is is giving them a
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daily routine that they can come to rely
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on well that’s the consistency of it but
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also it’s saying look they have a job to
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do I have a job to do and I need to do
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my job and then step out of the way and
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one of the jobs the main job is to make
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sure they’re safe and they have what
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they need to do their job and as the
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herd manager I’m responsible to make
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that happen and too many times I see
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that’s not the case and you keep
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referring to it as the herd manager
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these are herd animals and they’re
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looking for a leader and what I’ve heard
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you say many times is you are the head
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of the herd they have to respect the
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fact that you’re the boss that’s right
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and they do have a goat-headed the herd
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called the Queen and they know that’s
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what she is but I would say in my herd
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this has always surprised me most of the
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time I don’t have a real goat head of
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the herd
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I might have one that’s more bossy but I
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do think they lean on me to be really
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the head of the herd and accept that
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that’s the role that I play well one of
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the goals of humane treatment aside from
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just you know fulfilling your half of
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the compact with this herd is to to the
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end result is a healthy animal so how
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are you gonna be recognizing when your
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goats are healthy and when your goats
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are sick well we can talk about that in
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a minute but I would like to finish
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talking about the different list because
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that the the next part which fits in to
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what you just said is hoof trimming and
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maintenance so if you’re wanting to find
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a healthy goat the first thing you’re
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going to do is look at those feet and
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see how those hooves have been trimmed
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and sometimes you’ll see they’re peeling
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a little bit so that might tell you like
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I have a goat right now this has a
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little bit of peeling on her horns on
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her
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whoops and I I know that this is a
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copper deficiency and also we’ve had
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horrible wet weather really horrible for
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so long and this is hard on them so if
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you don’t take care of their hoofs
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you’re not going to have a healthy
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animal especially in the environment
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we’ve had this year with too much
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moisture the next thing is euthanasia
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how are you going to have a deal with an
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animal that has to be put down you have
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to have figured this out is the most
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horrendous thing to go through when an
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animal is dying and you haven’t thought
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through what to do about it super super
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important especially when you’ve come
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you know you’ve created a relationship
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with this animal it’s it’s not exactly a
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pet but it’s a friend you know I mean
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well you’re workers together so and if
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you have livestock you will have dead
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stock and that is just the reality of it
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and it’s important to accept that this
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is how it goes and what will you do what
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is your process for dealing with it who
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are the people you can call up and ask
23:23
for some guidance where can you go on
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Facebook or other social media sites who
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is your vet that you can call on what
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supplies do you have that can help you
23:33
with them these issues do you have a
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weapon are you prepared to you know
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slice it throat or shoot it or maybe
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take the exhaust from the car and this
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is the consider the humane way to kill
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an animal is to take the exhaust with a
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pipe and give it carbon monoxides a
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little bit difficult to get the car out
23:57
into the barnyard I don’t think you do
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run it – but the other thing would be
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that you would need to give under the
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guidance of the rules for humane
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treatment if you were going to shoot it
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or cut its throat you would need to give
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it an anesthetic of some sort so that it
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doesn’t know what’s happening okay well
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already now I understand why I’m not the
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goat herder because I could not do any
24:17
of those things yeah okay well the other
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thing though is that’s the that’s in the
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same line as slaughtering as you know I
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couldn’t do that either
24:26
yeah well and so again rather be a
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hypocrite you’re gonna have too many
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goats you’re gonna have too many
24:32
chickens whatever it is you’re gonna
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have too many of and they’re mostly
24:35
going to be the boys you
24:37
don’t need those mails so what to do
24:39
about it and that’s the paradox of
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raising livestock that we’ve always
24:42
because I think so many people who get
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into sustainability and homesteading
24:46
think of the one part of it sort of the
24:50
idyllic I have these animals prancing
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around in the field and I’m growing my
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own tomatoes and everything is wonderful
24:55
they don’t realize that there is death
24:58
and killing and all these other things
25:01
that life we’re so we’re so removed from
25:05
it the other thing is and we’re talking
25:07
about that as emergency preparedness so
25:09
having things sorted so what do you do
25:12
when there’s an emergency and how do you
25:14
deal with that recognizing signs of what
25:17
is normal behavior what is health what
25:20
is abnormal behavior what’s paying
25:22
what’s fear and really I recommend that
25:27
every day you spend some moments with
25:30
every single animal watching them walk I
25:33
like to feed we have barrels that are
25:36
attached to fence posts and and we fill
25:38
those barrels with hay and part of the
25:40
reason we do that is because they go
25:42
shouldn’t be eating on the ground but
25:44
the other part is I want to see them in
25:46
this bad weather when it’s cold and
25:47
rainy I want to see them walk from the
25:50
barnyard to those barrels and an example
25:53
would be recently we had a young goat a
25:55
spring kid that obviously had mennenga
26:00
worm and this is often fatal and it’s
26:03
only because I saw her stumble one time
26:06
stumble walking to that barrel and I
26:09
brought her into the milk room and it
26:10
was clear to me what was wrong and she
26:13
was disoriented she was dragging her leg
26:15
and this all happened within a 24-hour
26:17
period so it’s part of the herd manager
26:20
has got to be to observe and I run my
26:23
hand across every animal every day and
26:27
also then just the idea of understanding
26:30
having a knowledge of body condition
26:34
scoring this is a it’s called
26:37
F AMA CH a and you can look it up online
26:41
and it will give you all the details of
26:44
how to look at an animal and score it
26:46
according to the color of the inside of
26:48
their
26:48
lid and also by the bone structure
26:51
that’s evident in the animal again these
26:54
are all really important things that we
26:56
have to know and we can’t we can just
26:59
start out and buy an animal and just
27:02
pretend that we can just muddle through
27:04
but a lot of time we’re going to have a
27:06
dead animal I know you get a lot of
27:09
calls from people who are raising goats
27:11
and it always amazes me how ill-prepared
27:15
people are to deal with these animals
27:18
they they have this sense that you buy a
27:21
goat or you buy any livestock you put it
27:24
out in the dog or cat yeah and then
27:26
magically they seem to take care of
27:28
themselves and then I don’t know I guess
27:33
they’re they’re just for scenery and
27:34
backdrop it’s hard to say I don’t know
27:37
what people are thinking I think we’re
27:38
so far removed from realities but one of
27:41
the other part about humane treatment is
27:43
what do we do with an animal who’s sick
27:46
or dying so we need to have a plan for
27:49
that and part of that plan needs to be
27:51
first of all when you see something’s
27:53
wrong is to separate that animal and
27:55
from the rest of the herd and part of
27:59
the challenge of that is that goats are
28:01
prey animals and so they’re very fearful
28:03
and stressed if they don’t have the
28:06
ability to see the rest of the herd
28:08
sometimes we’ll separate with if it’s a
28:11
young kid with the mother or the sibling
28:13
but we have ours all of our situation in
28:17
the barnyard so that goats can see each
28:19
other if they have to be separated so
28:22
these are all really important factors
28:25
that go into how to have a humane
28:28
treatment but also how to have a lot
28:31
better chance a lot better percentage of
28:33
having healthy animals and also having a
28:37
really wonderful experience in being a
28:40
goat herder it’s a fabulous way to live
28:43
life to share with these animals they’re
28:45
highly intelligent they they love to
28:49
walk with humans they love to interact
28:51
with humans and I think they give back
28:53
far more than then we really need and I
28:57
feel so happy every day that it’s not
29:01
snowing up to my
29:02
hips that that I am a goat herder and
29:06
that I chose this way of life okay well
29:09
with that I’ll remind you that you’ve
29:12
been listening to when the biomass hits
29:14
the wind turbine with Jay and Annie
29:16
the Goat Herder Warmke
29:18
thanking you for spending just a wee
29:20
little bit of time with us and as your
29:22
grandmother hopefully probably told you
29:24
in the goats the secret to a happy and
29:26
sustainable life is play nice with
29:29
others clean up your own mess and Jay
29:32
you and the goats really do need okay
29:37
till next time
29:40
[Music]
30:00
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30:10
you can find more information on living
30:13
sustainably in our unsustainable world
30:15
at Blue Rock station dot com
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