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[Music]
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[Music]
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welcome to this edition of when the
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biomass hits the wind turbine a
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discussion of sustainable living and
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what that means to you and me I’m Jay Warmke
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and I’m Annie Warmke you certainly
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are and today we’re gonna talk about
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activism or I’m mad as hell and I’m not
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gonna take it anymore or as they say in
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Minnesota right I’m mad as oh geez I’m
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mad as a double hockey sticks now you
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got my Minnesota going alright so Annie
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you you talk a little bit here
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I mean you’ve you’ve always maintained
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you’re an activist I was born an
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activist Jay and and we were talking
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about being accidental activists a while
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ago so so I think I think most activists
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would probably say I didn’t intend on
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doing this I just got mad and I did this
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I remember the first time somebody said
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to me oh you’re a community organizer
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and I looked up I was just out of
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college and I was you know 30 years old
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out of college and they said oh you’re
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community organizers and I looked at
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them and I thought wow that’s a cute
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little name but no I’m not I’m mad as
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hell and I’m gonna do something about
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this well I’ve never been in any
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organized community in my life so so I
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think we all need a little organization
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so go ahead talk about it I mean
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organizing I’m just trying I don’t know
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where you’re going with that organize my
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thoughts for me here might be an
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activist I’m proactive well I think in
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in terms of activism there are a number
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of things that go on in life that push
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us to really probably all be accidental
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in our activism and I think we’re at a
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time in our history as a nation and as a
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culture that lots of us are being
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activists without meaning to be I hear
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this all the time I hear people saying
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you know it doesn’t do any good to write
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letters anymore or go see my congressman
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or even to protest and so people are
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feeling quite frustrated and that’s the
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really first thing that you hope for in
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terms of
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trying to cultivate in somebody their
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ability to create change and that’s what
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activism is it’s acting on something
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that you believe in whether it’s
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something you want to change or
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something you want to promote and and
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then actually having some kind of
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strategy of how to change that or alter
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it in some way so I think the first
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thing though that has to happen is that
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we have to feel frustrated we have to be
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pushed off of our comfortable little
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place that we sit and we have to say I
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don’t know what else to do and maybe
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you’re even grieving I know after the
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election in 2016 we saw this in many
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many young people who come to us for a
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number of different reasons either
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through our internship or tours or
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whatever and they were truly grieving
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and they were grieving for something
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that really didn’t even ever exist at
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least in their lifetime and that was the
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ability to influence the government and
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to feel safe and that somebody’s going
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to come and rescue you and now that
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we’re in a period of time where none of
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those things are possible we’ve got to
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come up with some answers we’ve got to
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organize ourselves and but let me back
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up just a second because first off I’m
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going to ask the question for those
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people who are listening saying what the
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heck does this have to do with
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sustainability everything I figured it
03:57
was because I agreed that we would do
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this as a show so I’m assuming it has
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something to do with sustainability so
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tie it all together and then go for it
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go go tell us how to change the world
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how to change the world well I don’t
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really want to change the world I think
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I want to just change the path I’m on
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and I think that’s where it all begins
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but the reason it has everything to do
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with sustainability is that we’re living
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in a day and age when basically the end
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of the world has been announced in the
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in 2030 which is 12 years from now
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government body says you know what we
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aren’t going to be able to inhabit the
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earth and so I think people are
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get min or hurry okay well I’m not gonna
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leave that one unchallenged cuz cuz as
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far as my memory goes the end of the
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world’s been coming ever since I could
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remember I don’t really care that isn’t
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the point the point is that that some of
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us are a lot more motivated and it’s not
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me I live my life every day motivated to
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live in a world that’s different but
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lots and lots of people who’ve never
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thought about this or had the luxury to
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think about that they have the ability
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to change something now feel incredibly
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motivated they see flooding they see
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horrible hurricanes
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they also see people don’t have enough
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they see the government falling apart
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there are all kinds of visible things
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that show us that we’re not living in a
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sustainable way right so I would say
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though for those people paying attention
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there’s always been a motivation to want
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to change our society I mean if you’re
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paying attention but now it’s really in
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your face that are just shouting at you
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saying look this is dysfunctional this
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is broken it should be different nobody
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who should be making these changes seems
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to be effectively making these changes
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so each of us ends up with this thing of
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saying if they’re not gonna fix it I’m
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gonna do my bit to try and I don’t think
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we’re there yet
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I think they’re saying so who is going
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to come and we’ve talked about this in
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other episodes but the reality is the
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frustration is growing because it’s
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becoming more and more clear that there
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is nobody coming to help us so so as
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people who want to live more simply and
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want to try to stretch out the resources
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that are on the earth and in our
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neighborhoods and in our lives we have
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to as my grandma would say we have to
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don’t don’t say what your dad I knew
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what your grandma was gonna say she was
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more like a trucker
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so anyways oh my god so so basically
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what okay so so basically what you’re
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saying is in this in order to sustain
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this world you know in some manner form
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which we would like to inhabit it each
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of us will or a significant portion
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we’ll need to become activists we will
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have to change something about it how to
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take control well we have to first be
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activists with ourselves and change your
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own behavior and not feel like we’re
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giving something up but actually gaining
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something right the Gandhi thing would
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be the change you want to see in them
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but the other challenge is we get this
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grandiose idea that we’re gonna go out
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and change some big thing
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well maybe we might get lucky and you
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could call it lucky or not but the guy
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who set himself on fire and started the
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Arab Spring he did create a lot of
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change it doesn’t seem like his long
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last well he was the catalyst he was the
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catalyst for something that was ready
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ready – that’s right so timing timing is
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everything
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but the timing for right now is within
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each of us it isn’t about that we’re
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gonna change a lot of things around us
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because frankly the things that we need
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to decompose and decay and fall down
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have not quite fallen apart yet but
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those of us who’ve been thinking about
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this for a long time and recognize that
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we had the skills to be activists and
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organize people those people are coming
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forward and then I think some of us need
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to be saying how do we train other
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people to be able to channel that energy
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to change something within themselves so
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that then they can see what else they
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want to change whether it’s in their
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family or at their workplace or in their
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neighborhood or the universe okay so
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basically what you’re saying is you
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first off need to be aware that there’s
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a problem it typically has tick you off
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a bit most people just feel it they
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they’re not really sure what it means
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and then and then once you’re motivated
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usually through anger or depression or
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the 17 stages agree for whatever that is
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then you’re saying okay now you got to
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take it upon yourself and say you know
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what I’m gonna do I’m gonna be the one
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to take some action yeah and and then
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you’ve got to be at the right place at
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the right time typically because
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oftentimes people will say hey everybody
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follow me and let’s storm the castle and
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you’ll look behind and you’re the only
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one there most the time that you’re
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going to be the only one in the
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beginning and that’s why it’s important
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to as one of the first steps is
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to link up with other people mm-hmm
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because there are an awful lot of people
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right now in this culture who are
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incredibly frustrated and they don’t
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know what to do with it I just came back
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from a consulting project I did in
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Florida and I spent some time with
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people that I’ve known most of my adult
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life and and it was interesting to hear
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them talk about their relatives who are
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very upper middle class middle class
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they have everything they need and how
09:40
frustrated they are that it isn’t doing
09:43
any good to change things because they
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write letters or they go visit their
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legislators and that changes nothing
09:50
everybody just smiles and and goes about
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what they’re going to do anyway
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and so they’re feeling frustrated
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they’re looking for some answers and
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that’s a unique group of people because
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they have the resources to live
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comfortably and maybe not quite notice
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what’s happening around them they can
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they can put themselves you know on the
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other side of the barrier so there are
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some things that that we have to think
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about and and I think the most important
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issue is to find a community a tribe
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even if it’s three or four people maybe
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it’s the local Unitarian Church or a
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committee that’s meeting at you know the
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United campus ministry in Athens or
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something like that well with today’s
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technology I mean social media is that
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way of gathering like-minded people
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together but how is that then how do you
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turn that slacktivism oh I tweeted
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something and therefore the world
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changed you know or just grousing about
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things online or complaining into I mean
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honey make that effective well I don’t I
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wasn’t really referring to that because
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I think what we do so it’s ineffective
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on the face of it well I think what we
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tend to do is be frustrated or sad or
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this is a way for us all to be
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frustrated and sad and angry – no no you
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that’s your thing no what I was getting
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at is that what often happens when
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people are in crisis is they find
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somebody and Facebook would be a good
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example or Instagram or
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send a tweet or whatever and they say
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what is frustrating them and then they
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temporarily feel better because they
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feel listened to and then off they go
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and they stop trying to make some change
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within themselves and so this is not
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what I’m talking about what I’m talking
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about is finding real live human beings
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I know this is a unique concept that you
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could have coffee with or tea with and
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you could sit down and say this is what
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I’m frustrated about and then what what
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you begin to do is to think about what
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what could we do about it and I don’t I
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I don’t I can’t say what that would be
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that would have to come out of that
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group but I think that this is what has
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to happen we have to organize ourselves
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and one of the things that we’re doing
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at Blue Rock station starting in January
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is we’re having an an accidental
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activist school that’s part of our free
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school so that we can begin to help
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people identify their true skillset so
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that’s one of the first steps is say
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well what are my real skills it’s not
12:29
about where I graduated from University
12:32
it’s whether I have the ability to move
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an agenda identify something and move an
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agenda and how that works and how it can
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work and how we can create networks and
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things like that so it’s really
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important to to not let yourself just
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sit there and say oh I told somebody I’m
12:50
upset and now it’s all good because it’s
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not mm-hmm yeah because that’s basically
12:56
Thanksgiving dinner I’m upset and it’s
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because of you so okay so we’re moving
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past there you’re saying one of the
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resources is other people that’s one of
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the resources that’s going to become
13:10
effective and what I’m hearing you say
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is face to face you know right actually
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well there are a lot of roles that other
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people can play because if you want to
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create activism you have to be able to
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have a lot of different skill sets and
13:26
obviously we don’t all have those skill
13:28
sets so other people that know people
13:29
other people that maybe have a the
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ability to give a little bit of money in
13:33
case you need gas money or where you
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need
13:37
pay a speaker to show up or whatever so
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benefactors we need benefactors and we
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can talk more about that after you do
13:44
the call letters after I do the culprit
13:46
okay so with that cue in mind you’re
13:50
listening to when the biomass hits the
13:53
wind turbine with Jay and Annie Warmke
13:55
reminding you once again that it is in
13:58
fact the end of the world as we know it
14:00
and thank God thank God and let’s go out
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and be active about this yeah so I just
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wanted to share a couple stories that
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have to do with benefactors so in my
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work over my adult life I’ve started a
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number of projects and been a pioneer
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and the battered women’s movement and
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started some women’s funds and things
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like that but it always started out that
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there were benefactors and and I can
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honestly say I wouldn’t be sitting here
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today if it wasn’t for for some of those
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benefactors and they did a lot of
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different things but the one thing that
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I was good at and I’m still that didn’t
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change is is identifying people that
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have something in common with me with
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what I believe and then creating social
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situations and this isn’t manipulation
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or anything it’s saying hey you know
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let’s talk about what we have in common
14:53
because I’m frustrated and so when we
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started organizing battered women’s
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projects in rural areas it’s because I
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had been a battered woman so there’s
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this in a rural area so there’s this
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self-absorption this hedonism that comes
15:08
in to the activists well you have to
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bring your own unique experiences to the
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role but when you’re talking about
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bringing people together who have
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different resources it just reminded me
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because I know when you were dealing
15:18
with battered women you were bringing
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you brought in the NRA the National
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Rifle Association saying hey guys you
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guys claim to be all about self defense
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this is about self defense isn’t this a
15:30
common thing don’t we each have the the
15:33
right to defend ourselves it did however
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we had to have an agreement that when we
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sat at the table they didn’t bring up
15:44
anything except the right to self
15:46
defense and they didn’t do anything that
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I didn’t ask them to do so
15:51
those days letters made a difference
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plus they knew the governor they knew
15:54
the cabinet members they could call them
15:56
up and get them on the phone I mean I I
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did the same thing with the Junior
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League and Baptist women’s groups and
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you know these are not groups that
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necessarily would have agreed with me
16:05
about anything else but they did agree
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that women had the right to live in a
16:10
safe environment and they had the right
16:11
to self-defense
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so again but there were benefactors
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there were powerful allies and I had the
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ability to bring them to the table and
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that was important but I also had people
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in my life like you who said when I was
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the most discouraged you know you you
16:31
know why it’s working
16:33
you know what’s happening is when people
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push back it’s because you’re winning
16:37
and that made it so I couldn’t give up
16:40
well that brings to the next question is
16:43
is how do you deal with that inevitable
16:45
pushback because almost by definition
16:47
well certainly by definition if you’re
16:50
being an activist you’re trying to
16:51
change the status quo and Mister status
16:54
and mister quo typically don’t want to
16:58
be changed why guys do not give up power
17:02
without it being taken I’m sorry to say
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this this this news right before we get
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to that before we talk about pushback
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and white guys and all that just a
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little bit about timing so timing can be
17:16
everything right now the timing is
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fantastic if you want to be an activist
17:21
it may not feel like that because
17:22
everybody’s still trying to use the same
17:24
old stuff with letters and just saying
17:26
the right thing and they think that
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these people are going to do the right
17:29
thing which they are not and they’re
17:32
also thinking that people are going to
17:33
come and help and they are not but the
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timing is fantastic for organizing folks
17:39
because people are frustrated and they
17:42
don’t know what the answer is and that
17:45
is exciting because guess what we’re
17:47
going to come up with some of the
17:48
answers and that part is going to knock
17:51
everybody for a loop so we have to also
17:54
have people people who can help us
17:56
develop strategies of what’s possible
17:59
and for example one of the papers that I
18:01
wrote an op-ed piece that I just saw
18:04
in the file recently was where I wrote a
18:06
whole thing about why aren’t we setting
18:09
a date to end whatever it is we’re
18:13
working towards so why aren’t we setting
18:15
an 8 a date to end domestic violence or
18:17
why aren’t we setting a date for world
18:19
peace because the reality is if we can’t
18:21
visualize it how are we ever going to
18:23
get there strategies well I remember
18:27
when you were first getting involved
18:29
with getting mmm excuse me getting
18:32
battered women released from prison down
18:35
in Florida for defending themselves and
18:39
you had struggled over this for a long
18:42
long time and kept saying I’m not a
18:43
lawyer I’m not a lawyer I don’t know the
18:45
law I don’t know how I can help these
18:47
women who are in prison and then one day
18:49
you know having that kind of Eureka
18:51
moment of going this isn’t about the law
18:54
this has nothing to do with the law this
18:57
is about public relations it’s about the
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positive life it’s if I can make the
19:04
powers-that-be look ridiculous look
19:07
embarrassed then we’re gonna get
19:09
movement on this but the legal system
19:12
also rarely has anything to do with the
19:15
law well but the thing was we also
19:18
manipulated the legal system and we
19:20
trained law students you manipulate a
19:22
lot of people the media the prison
19:24
system Wow
19:25
we were doing our jobs let’s put it that
19:27
way well manipulate has a bad
19:29
connotation but basically if you’re in
19:31
activism you’re wanting to manipulate
19:33
the system you want to change that
19:35
system to do what it is you want them to
19:37
do that is manipulation well it’s also
19:40
having a strategy that says when things
19:43
present themselves let’s go for it so I
19:46
do remember once getting I had been
19:49
hired to start a women’s fund in Florida
19:51
and I got an invitation from the
19:53
governor and I had been organizing these
19:56
women who’d been in prison who were
19:58
battered women and and we were trying to
20:00
write letters and we had hundreds of
20:02
letters had been generated saying what
20:04
are you gonna do about women who are
20:06
going to prison that don’t belong there
20:07
that have acted in self-defense and and
20:12
then I got this letter that invited me
20:14
to the governor’s mansion to talk about
20:17
the role of women at
20:18
women’s funds but private foundations
20:20
and the government because they had used
20:23
that money to hire somebody to settle a
20:26
lawsuit in the prison system and and I
20:29
looked up at the woman who was helping
20:31
me and I said we’re gonna go see the
20:33
governor I mean how often to get invited
20:36
to his house to eat dinner with them so
20:38
well I don’t want to brag we’ve gone
20:42
through the drive-through window anyway
20:46
so what we ended up doing was we spent a
20:49
lot of time creating a strategy that we
20:53
would wear our really best hats because
20:56
I loved hats and I had some really great
20:58
hats and we would have one question we
21:01
were gonna ask because I knew I was
21:03
going to be nervous as I could be and so
21:06
we drove all the way to Tallahassee four
21:08
and a half hours we got out of the car
21:10
and there was the governor holding the
21:11
door for us it was like whoa it’s an
21:14
omen and the whole evening was really
21:16
crazy but when I finally did get to ask
21:19
the question he screwed up the answer so
21:22
badly that his public policy person I
21:26
don’t remember I think she worked for
21:28
the environment as public policy which
21:31
meant she was an attorney and she had
21:33
spoken to me at the meeting right before
21:37
everybody started having the
21:38
conversation where I asked the question
21:40
she said to me oh I love what you’re
21:42
doing with the Women’s Fund and I would
21:44
love to participate are you looking for
21:46
board members and I said yes I am
21:48
so when the governor was handling my
21:51
question so poorly I could see her
21:53
shaking her head and I thought I’m gonna
21:55
get kicked out she’s gonna kick me out
21:57
and when it was over she came rushing up
22:00
to me and of course I knew at that
22:01
moment I’m I’m toast
22:03
and she said I’m so embarrassed the
22:05
governor handled that so badly you call
22:07
me on Monday and I’m going to make this
22:09
happen okay so a couple of things
22:12
occurred to me as you’re telling that
22:14
story one is focus right I mean you had
22:17
one question one issue mm-hmm went in
22:19
there with your agenda and say instead
22:22
of being all over the place about
22:23
everything because when it comes to
22:25
complaining we can we can all
22:27
scattershot pretty easily so you’re
22:29
saying kind of be laser-focused
22:31
on your issue and and it occurred to me
22:35
also when we talk about the pushback I
22:38
remember through that process many times
22:41
you were threatened you know threatened
22:43
that you would be fired and the problem
22:46
they had was you were doing it all for
22:48
free you know well I I did have the
22:50
board that night say to me they were
22:52
gonna fire me because I spoke up in that
22:54
meeting we are embarrassing them talking
22:56
about women as a women’s fund well you
23:00
should know better than that so so those
23:03
are a couple of things well it you know
23:05
I was talking with one of our interns
23:07
about the the problem that I perceived
23:11
with the Occupy Wall Street movement of
23:14
a few years ago and it seemed like they
23:18
were all over the place I mean they were
23:21
they they were not focused
23:23
they were there’s a lot of issues and
23:25
they were very ineffective in my
23:28
estimation and what was interesting
23:31
there people who would disagree but well
23:32
that’s you know and I’m getting to that
23:34
because because our intern was saying
23:36
look the the the effectiveness of that
23:40
movement wasn’t in making change at that
23:44
moment the effectiveness of that
23:47
movement was bringing people together
23:49
who were motivated and creating
23:52
relationships that will make change for
23:55
decades to come so so the action itself
23:59
may have looked ineffective at the
24:00
moment but now there’s all sorts of
24:03
communities and all sorts of groups and
24:05
relationships that are going on there
24:06
that are making those changes and and
24:10
that’s something that you know I was
24:13
quick to dismiss until it was pointed
24:15
out to me well and and and just to come
24:17
back to that about building
24:19
relationships when I was doing that with
24:22
the governor and the cabinet and a lot
24:24
of other powerful people that strategy
24:26
work because the timing was good the
24:28
strategy was right on and I was able to
24:32
get an awful lot of people to come to
24:34
the table so it was hard for them to
24:35
look away but today that strategy would
24:38
not work what does work though is the
24:41
building relationship part and that is
24:43
at a local level
24:45
where we build relationships first with
24:47
our own activism within ourselves and
24:49
embrace that and say we got to do
24:51
something and then the other thing is to
24:54
build it with people who are like-minded
24:56
think it doesn’t even have to be that
24:58
like-minded it means we have to focus on
25:01
what we have in common and then we can
25:04
go from there so those are the
25:06
relationships we have to build today not
25:08
the president you know of something but
25:11
the guy who lives next door or the guy
25:13
who runs the garbage truck or the guy
25:16
who the woman who hands out the stuff at
25:19
McDonald’s where are those people in our
25:21
life who have something in common with
25:23
us well once you’ve identified the goal
25:25
and you’ve gotten yourself motivated to
25:28
do this how do you keep yourself
25:28
motivated keep yourself moving forward
25:32
well I think you have to have specific
25:34
steps that you say you’re going to make
25:36
and I highly suggest you write them down
25:39
because sometimes it’s hard to remember
25:41
that you actually did anything because
25:44
it can seem so tedious and and lots of
25:47
pushing back although the more they push
25:49
back the more they tell you we’re not
25:51
doing that or whatever then the more you
25:54
know somewhere you’re making some
25:56
headway well but that can be very
25:59
discouraging well but it’s a fact of
26:01
life it’s all a part of that an equation
26:03
that’s about being an activist so I
26:05
think a big part of pushback is that
26:07
those of us who are not in that movement
26:10
we have to be saying to you as an
26:13
activist when you’re trying to do
26:15
something well done you’re making
26:16
progress I know that’s what Awards mean
26:19
to people is to get an award is only
26:23
saying you you don’t stop keep going
26:26
mm-hmm so there’s a lot of ways I mean
26:29
we had that in your situation there in
26:31
Florida where you were feeling very
26:34
discouraged and then this national group
26:36
the giraffe foundation gave you this
26:39
award for sticking my neck and I
26:43
remember telling you well guess you got
26:45
to keep going because they gave you an
26:47
award yeah I was ready to quit I was
26:50
feeling pretty hopeless because I was
26:51
sick and and I didn’t know what I was
26:53
doing and I actually did win so let’s
26:56
say you do win then what I mean you got
26:58
to have a strategy
26:59
jeetu actually win a lot of these people
27:01
they make all this movement they get
27:04
their goal and they don’t know what to
27:06
do with the ball once they caught it
27:07
well winning has a lot of definitions
27:09
and so winning could be that it’s all
27:12
about people working together and you
27:14
come up with a lot of cool things like
27:16
you were talking about with the the Wall
27:19
Street issue group and so what does that
27:23
mean and I think you have to define that
27:24
but where do you want to be with that
27:26
and how do you want to use it once you
27:28
have it and maybe you just give it away
27:30
I don’t know but or maybe you never win
27:34
maybe it’s the process of trying to get
27:36
there and building these relationships
27:37
and seeing how those people go home and
27:39
do something again it’s all part of this
27:41
strategy and we’ll talk about it at Blue
27:43
Rock station when we have the accidental
27:46
activist mm-hmm so do not go calmly or
27:50
quietly into that good night okay well
27:53
you that mean well it’s an it’s a famous
27:55
poem about struggling against the
27:57
inevitability of old age but that’s a
27:59
whole different actively listening to
28:04
when the biomass it’s the wind turbine
28:06
with Jay and Annie Warmke we’d like to
28:09
thank our emmy-winning producer Adam
28:12
rich
28:13
yeah Adam and thank you for spending
28:16
just a little bit of time with us as
28:18
your grandmother probably hopefully
28:20
actively told you the secret to a happy
28:23
and sustainable life is play sort of
28:25
nice with others unless you want to win
28:27
clean up your own mess and Jay would you
28:29
please eat your vegetables at least once
28:32
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28:56
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29:06
you can find more information on living
29:09
sustainably in our unsustainable world
29:11
at Blue Rock station calm
29:17
you
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