Our Podcast
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[Music]
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[Music]
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welcome to this edition of when the
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biomass hits the wind turbine a
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discussion of sustainable living and
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what that means to you and me I’m Jay
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Warmke I’m Annie Warmke and today we’re
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gonna talk about future trends and
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sustainability or don’t follow me I’m
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lost too I’m gonna remind you of that I
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need no reminding I just need to look up
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periodically alright so let’s talk a
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little bit because we we discuss
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sustainability at nauseam and and at
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black stations all right so I’m trying
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to bring a little culture to this so
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anyway so so when we talk about the
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various aspects of sustainability there
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are a whole lot of broad categories so
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let’s try and hit these things kind of
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one but okay but before we do just to
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say I knew I wasn’t gonna get to my list
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I don’t care about statistics right
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those can be manipulated and who does
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the study that’s what I want to know so
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what we’re going to talk about today is
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really the things that we see as we read
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different news generation things like
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you know some newspapers some magazines
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and just also listening closely to
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people who cross our threshold what
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you’re doing is level setting saying
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none of these projections have anything
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to do with any scientific research not
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so we’re doing scientific research all
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the time what I’m getting at is that
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this is just our conversation and and
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it’s absolutely factual there’s nothing
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made up and it’s not fake news how’s
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that okay well speaking of it’s our news
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from Blue Rock station speaking of fake
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news let’s talk about communication okay
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we we are a world dependent upon
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communication yet we don’t seem able to
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communicate with each other well we’re a
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world dependent on consumption
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communication we want to we want to sell
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stuff and that’s and nobody’s off the
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charts for that okay
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so in the world of sustainability what
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do you see coming down the pike at us
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we’ve seen this this ever progressing
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march of media coming at us ever no it’s
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not a March it’s a bombardment okay
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really amazing like smacking you in the
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chest everywhere you go there’s TVs
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there’s radio there’s social media
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there’s the rectangles staring at you
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beeping at you right so do you see
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people then fighting back against this I
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think so and I see a rejection I’m
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fascinated with the fact that they’re
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actually not just old people but also
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younger people going to flip phones
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where they don’t want to have the
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technology tracking them although it is
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tracking them but they don’t want all of
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that they just want some simple thing to
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communicate with and then they’re going
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to use a real camera to take pictures if
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they need something and I think people
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we hear young people all the time at
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Blue Rock station saying I left my phone
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here because I or I’m taking a break for
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a week from social media or I don’t do
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social media anymore or I’m reading a
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real book that I hold in my hand so I
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think there’s a backlash and I think
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that backlash is gonna keep coming and I
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know I said I wasn’t going to stay it’s
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just you you were I was just gonna
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mention you were telling me about the
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statistic about eBook sales declining
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significantly while real book sales are
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going on 10% a year real book sales are
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increasing so do you know 10% isn’t
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statistics are just made up well the
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other 10% weren’t there you go okay so
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so and and I can see that I mean I’ve
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always maintained a book is a really
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good technology I mean it’s portable
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it’s transferable you can read it when
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the electricity goes off it’s it’s a
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good technology nothing wrong with it so
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we we tend to get carried away when we
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say okay just because we can do a thing
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it’s going to be done that’s right it
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must
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well we’re sunny it makes money well to
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some people but what we’re saying is
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okay as these technologies become more
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intrusive
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more annoying more pervasive people will
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become momentarily Amish right no I
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don’t think I don’t know if that’s a
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good analogy I I don’t think it’s
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momentarily Amish I think that what
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people will say is I know I’m going to
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try to decide what I need and what I
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don’t need and I’m gonna sort that out
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and I’m not sure how that’s gonna impact
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younger people who really don’t know
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life without those things I think what
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it does is create an act of rebellion on
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their part and we all know that anybody
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under 20 for the most part likes to have
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some acts of rebellion so I’m just
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wondering what that’s going to mean to
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our consumption generating corporations
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in the next decade well let’s hope it’s
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significantly change so ok moving on
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speaking of consumption see I’m making
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these bridges how is how do you envision
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because again if I if I go back and say
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all right we’ve gone from a society
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where people or their neighbors created
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food and consumed it themselves or
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shared it with people who were nearby to
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now a food industry that is global and
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highly processed and highly
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industrialised so that has been the
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post-world War Two to today the last 50
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years of progress so where do you see us
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going with that well I think we’re gonna
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see lots more local food so everything
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old is new again well all we have to do
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is least for me is to look back and see
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how my grandparents lived when they were
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maybe in their 30s and 40s before before
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all the things started changing with the
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industrialization of food so I think
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we’re going to see more farmers markets
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better farmers markets more buying
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locally and directly from farmers I
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think we’re going to see a lot of farms
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going out of business because they’re
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mismanaged and they’ve always maintained
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bigger is better and bigger is not
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better and it’s not sustainable I also
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think that we’re going to gain a
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more access to good food because there
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is going to be interruption there’s
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going to be a lot of issues coming that
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will interrupt my interruption do you
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mean like like we’ve seen some ecoli
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outbreaks Voyageur just distribution
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maybe the grid goes down and there’s no
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gas to ship stuff I would take a day and
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it would just be amazing what would
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happen so we’re going to become more
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dependent on each other and what we can
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produce and I think that’s a really
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great thing and there’s some of that
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going on now but I think we have to kind
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of come back to it well I tend to agree
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I think we we’ve got a lot of we’ve
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talked a bit about in other and other
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shows about the natural disasters and
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and how climate change is affecting
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those things well climate change but
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also just the inevitability of highly
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industrializing what you’re putting into
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your body we’re gonna have some major
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catastrophic outbreaks I mean we have
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them already but they don’t seem to
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quite be of a point to bring it into the
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forefront of our consciousness but I
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think it just take a few of them and
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people are gonna start to question
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whether they can really count on the
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safety of the food that’s that they’re
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buying groceries but I don’t even think
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I mean yes I believe that’s true I think
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that’s one thing but I also think the
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disruption of the food chain where the
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food cannot be distributed so it isn’t
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just about that it’s poisoned
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but that it isn’t even available because
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people surprised me even today of how
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close they live to this line of they
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don’t have enough in their house to eat
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and they’re not poor people they just
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don’t put food up you know they don’t
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preserve food they don’t have a big they
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don’t even have food in their freezer
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right and if you talk about the city as
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an organism yes I mean this I don’t
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remember the right statistic but it’s
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like there’s two days or the food or so
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yeah I know yeah but it’s not that’s not
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very much and it’s like people also have
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lost the skillsets to produce food in a
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way that you can like read you know take
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leftovers and do something else with it
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and things like that so there isn’t even
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the ability to make proper food and
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I do think one of the trends at least I
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see is that we’re going to need to go
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back to some form of home economics so
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that young people can learn how to care
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for themselves and I don’t think that’s
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happening right now
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but I also think that we’re going to
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have and these trends are you can go
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online and look this up but as far as
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meat and dairy consumption that is
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decreasing every single year now and
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there’s a lot of complaining about the
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fact that people are eating less meat
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and dairy and of course the meat and
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dairy industry is going after the
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meatless industry and the almond milk
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people saying they can’t use the word
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milk and trying to create definition and
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they’re actually passing legislation in
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a number of states and have one passing
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this legislation to stop the almond milk
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people from saying milk or the meatless
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people you know toe fruit – what is it
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toad – tofurkey can’t you know after 30
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years they’re not allowed to use that
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term or something I don’t know but the
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reality is we are eating less meat we
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are eating less dairy and what do those
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trends mean well maybe we eat more fake
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food or maybe we just eat more plant
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produced food well it strikes me and
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where we’re we’re sort of heading in all
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of this when we talk about the
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technologies people were ejected some of
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the technology infrastructure is
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collapsing under its own wheat well I
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can’t seem to get an internet signal out
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of there oh my god things like that so
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we see that there are pockets the urban
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settings or the affluent urban settings
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have access to a lot of things so it
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with the technology and with the with
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the food system we’re creating again the
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haves and the have-nots and it’s largely
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based on the zip code where you live you
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know your economic situation and your
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location proximity to other people where
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concentration makes it economic to
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provide so so that’s there are a lot of
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neighborhoods in in urban areas that are
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food deserts and a food desert is not
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having access to a real grocery store
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within 2 miles so we actually live in a
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desert yeah okay well we’re I think
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that’s a trend that will see
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accelerating and continuing is is this
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the haves and the have-nots becoming
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more more pronounced and this will be a
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template to layover every one of these
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trends that we put in because those
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people who are educated and have the
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resources you know they’re entering into
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this brave new world of amazing
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opportunity those people who are not
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accessible to these resources become
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more and more ghettoized you know in in
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so many different ways and as we’ve
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talked about where government can be
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seen as the great great equalizer does
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not seem to be stepping up to the plate
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well they’re not coming right well we
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can they encourage it they really do
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encourage it okay so speaking of not
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coming this is another good ok
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transportation there we go
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transportation how are we even get there
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from here so so what what’s new what’s
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new in store in transportation as long
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as Annie sees it well one is that this
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does not take a rocket scientist to
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figure out that gas is cheap now but it
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is not going to stay there and I believe
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that the Saudis are paying us back for
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us not putting up with some of their big
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lies in their their torture where we’re
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being rewarded for putting up with these
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oh I don’t think we’re being rewarded at
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all I think we’re being led down okay so
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you’re saying okay we’re gonna make you
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dependent one so once again I see fuels
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yeah then we’re gonna yank the carpet
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yeah we are cynical person yeah they
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think that’s exactly what they’re doing
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and they got a lot of petrol I mean a
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lot of oil and they can do it so and
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then people are gonna race out and buy
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these vehicles and fortunately the other
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trend well so and then they’re going to
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knock the socks off of us with the price
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but that’s okay I think that’s a
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positive thing because the car companies
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all the major car companies are
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repositioning themselves to have
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electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles
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and that is going to save us so this
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these can do whatever they want but
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we’re gonna be in a better position now
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save us save us for the time being
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because every trend solves a problem and
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then turns around it absolutely
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absolutely it’s another problem okay
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well you have been listening to when the
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biomass it’s the wind turbine with Jay
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and Annie Warmke reminding you once
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more that it is indeed the end of the
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world as we know it and thank God thank
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God okay so we’re not done yet man we’ve
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got the future to worry about so we’ve
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been talking about transportation and
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and we’re talking about okay
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transportation gas prices going up
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that’s gonna its disruptive the feast or
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famine kind of situation of fossil fuels
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moving towards an electric
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transportation and then one of my
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possible future trends I mean we in this
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sustainability industry love mass
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transit none of us actually use it even
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when it works you know when it’s
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available we like the convenience of our
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own vehicle you and I love to
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commiserate about how much we’d love to
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ride the trains in here okay but that
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was very convenient but but if you’re
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talking about people in general not not
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strange Psychopaths like ourselves
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reserved for your goats so anyway we we
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tend to like the convenience of going
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where we want to go and getting there
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when we want to get there and I think
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what we’re seeing is a conversion of
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technologies that will allow for
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individualized mass transit and and
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that’s a concept that I think is we’re
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taking baby steps towards their uber is
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an example I don’t have to own a car
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whenever I want to get somewhere I just
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call up uber and they show up and take
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me where I want to go if you happen to
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live in the city you know where uber is
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available and things like that but there
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are a lot of folks now in our society
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sim
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look at the automobile is an option as
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opposed to a necessity then we’re moving
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towards driverless vehicles but back up
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because I’m thinking of being in Paris
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and in London where they have converted
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to like I think every taxi driver I saw
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in Paris had a Prius hybrid and they had
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recharging stations for bicycles and the
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bicycles were there so it was they were
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government-owned and the thing about
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uber is the picture I have when you’re
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saying that is all these individual cars
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racing around and there are a lot more
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of them and that is kind of like
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destroying the whole concept of
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sustainability well we we thought we had
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this thought okay if people aren’t going
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out to buy their own cars there’ll be
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less traffic what ends up happening is
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the uber drivers driving around looking
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for somebody to pick up so so there’s a
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lot more traffic on the road so I’m not
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saying these things are solving any
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problems I’m just saying this is a trend
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where we’re going to look towards
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individualized mass transit whether that
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be vehicles driven or autonomous
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bicycles we see that in some places
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where you can just you know put money in
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a slot take a bike drive where you want
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to go right where you want to go and I
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believe there’s a couple of Chinese
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companies that are doing that really big
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in some sense there are some of those
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rental car places that are like that too
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you just grab a car and there’s a car
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park somebody right in Columbus you can
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do that right now southeastern Ohio is
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not only a food desert we’re a desert
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when it comes to all these innovation so
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once again the haves and the have-nots
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well we have other things that are
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important yes beauty fresh air good food
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charming people and intelligent children
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so those are all remember that gosh
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there’s too many on the list right so
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but I just think that private mass
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transit which seems to be an oxymoron
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but I think it’s something that you
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heard it here first okay let’s move on I
17:51
heard it here first
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employment ok what’s the future of
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employment the future of employment is
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that
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if you want to have a life so first of
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all if you went to college you probably
18:08
are in debt for the rest of your life
18:10
and I just had dinner on the weekend
18:14
with somebody who went to school to get
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her master’s degree in accounting and
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she has a hundred seventy thousand
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dollars in debt $1,800 a month payment
18:24
before she pays rent or anything so
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she’s in debt for the rest of her life
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and that’s the way it is
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how old is this person Oh like 28 or 29
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so so here’s the other part of that is
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that in order to live sustainably forget
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the debt part for the moment in order to
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live sustainably I believe that we have
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to live very differently than we do now
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for one thing we need to not have one
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source for any one thing that we need so
18:54
we don’t if we shouldn’t have one source
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to heat our house so why do we have one
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source for employment so so you’re
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moving towards the gig economy well I
19:04
know that’s what they call it although
19:06
it doesn’t seem like it’s terribly nice
19:08
right now but I think what has to happen
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is we have to have a different
19:12
government that sustains some of this
19:14
with us so we’re in partnership with the
19:17
people who take the tax money and so we
19:20
need to have young people who have a
19:22
couple of different sources and here’s
19:24
of employment and here’s what happens
19:26
then that perhaps they actually do
19:28
something that gives them a sense of
19:30
accomplishment and makes them feel good
19:33
about what they’re doing whether it’s
19:35
working for McDonald’s or its sweeping
19:38
the streets I mean not everybody is
19:40
going to end up doing you know being the
19:44
rocket scientist but the other flip side
19:46
of that is that we need to have people
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feel good about what they’re doing and
19:50
it is possible for the other part of it
19:54
is has to do with training you know I
19:56
see a trend towards saying look we’ve
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got a couple of different groups that
20:02
are in school besides the people going
20:04
to university and the people that are
20:06
just going to go out and do the labourer
20:09
jobs and in between there are some
20:12
really brilliant people who need trade
20:14
school they need vocational
20:16
occasion they need mentoring and so I
20:19
think if we step up to the plate and
20:21
look at that and say that’s a solution
20:23
then the gig economy can work because
20:26
people are in different jobs doing
20:28
different things that appeal to them
20:30
it’s not just you’re just the laborer
20:33
using your back to earn a living and
20:35
you’re not even making enough to pay for
20:37
a place to live so what you’re saying is
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the post-world War two idea or ideal of
20:44
going out getting a college education
20:47
going to work for a large corporation
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and having this this unsaid contract
20:54
between that company that I will devote
20:57
all of my energies to you and you will
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take care of me until I die basically
21:04
well that’s it that that was the very
21:06
ideal list well that was never a reality
21:08
but most of our ideals are never
21:10
realities but we’re saying okay let’s
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acknowledge the fact that the
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corporation doesn’t care whether you
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know they’ll use you abuse you and toss
21:18
you away so we see the idea that you
21:22
know working to live not living to work
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that’s that’s the big piece where we are
21:27
right now that young people want to have
21:30
more of a life they’ve seen that and
21:32
they know it doesn’t work and they’ve
21:34
been saddled with this debt and so
21:36
they’re saying look I can’t earn enough
21:38
to even afford a car and a place to live
21:41
I can’t afford children so I want to
21:45
have something that says I can have some
21:48
leisure time I want to have some time
21:50
where I can just be myself instead of be
21:53
owned by the person I work for and I
21:57
want to feel sustainable in what I’m
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doing you know lots of young people want
22:02
to do composting and grow food and you
22:05
know I think it’s a huge trend in our
22:07
culture and it’s just beginning okay so
22:10
so the big killer of choices which
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you’ve mentioned several times is debt
22:14
debt is prison debt is slavery and and
22:17
debt is is the number one product sold
22:21
in our nation I mean that is the product
22:24
that is manufactured more than anything
22:26
else if you think about the debt
22:29
industry
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yeah as it exists and and I think from
22:33
historical standpoint you know at one
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point people did not go into debt they
22:38
they worked saved and bought what it was
22:40
they needed there are certain purchases
22:43
like homes and land that that becomes
22:45
almost a generational thing where you
22:48
would have to work almost your whole
22:49
life to save up for that so so there
22:52
became it are you inherited so there’s a
22:55
different model than we have today right
22:57
but but then with the idea of being able
23:01
to purchase a home on installment that
23:05
was a big advancement and like most
23:07
things that become a problem in the
23:09
beginning they were not necessarily a
23:11
problem so then we get a revolving
23:14
credit kind of thing for the for the
23:16
purchase of things you would like to
23:17
have now the the old company store idea
23:21
you know that was a way of indenture
23:23
people to be indebted to the country
23:26
model we have now yeah so now you’re now
23:29
the company stores your credit card you
23:32
know you are working to pay off the debt
23:36
against things that you’re already used
23:38
up and broke well you also borrowed
23:41
money say if you’re in college or
23:43
university you borrowed money towards
23:45
your future earnings you didn’t just
23:47
borrow money to have something right and
23:49
that’s the next step is you say all
23:51
right not only are you borrowing money
23:52
for stuff that it’s gonna depreciate and
23:55
break and get used up but now we’re
23:58
going to borrow money against future
24:00
earnings and and we’ve speculated a
24:03
little bit about this in our own private
24:04
conversations is to say well what else
24:06
could these people actually loan you
24:08
money against that you have well what
24:11
else does the person have they don’t
24:13
have enough mouths I’m saying you know
24:15
in when we push it one forward why not
24:18
sell the future earnings of your
24:20
children you know why why you’re you’re
24:23
doing that with with school debt why not
24:26
you know the second year kid is born say
24:28
hey this kids going to earn X number of
24:31
dollars I’m gonna borrow against my kids
24:33
earning and you say well that’s not fair
24:35
well who said economics is fair right I
24:38
mean you’re raising the kid for eighteen
24:41
years 20 years what
24:43
that kid owes you I don’t think it’s
24:45
that far-fetched because I was reading
24:47
about the way that things are being done
24:50
in China where they have a credit system
24:55
and it basically evaluates you it
24:57
evaluates everything you purchase it
24:59
evaluates your friends and your family
25:02
and what they purchase and where they
25:04
eat and the music they listen to and if
25:07
your friends and your family aren’t very
25:09
high up on the scale people will go out
25:11
and try to get somebody and actually
25:13
give them money to sign on to their
25:16
friendship base so they can lift their
25:18
ability to borrow money or buy things or
25:21
get a place to eat in a restaurant
25:23
apparently have to sign up ahead of time
25:25
and if you don’t have enough high high
25:27
enough rating on your card you can’t get
25:30
a place in some of the restaurants sense
25:32
which is why the governor and I go
25:34
through the drive-thru window he’s dead
25:36
neither I just want you to say he’s dead
25:38
no I wasn’t talking about that guy oh
25:40
okay it’s alive governor I don’t know of
25:45
which state okay so so you’re in debt
25:49
your future is in debt you’re up to your
25:51
eyeballs where are you gonna live well
25:53
my people are living at home well they
25:57
sold your future income that’s true well
25:59
no they didn’t get that money or you you
26:01
got that money but it’s gonna change I
26:04
think it’s not just living at home but I
26:06
think I see lots of young people living
26:09
together in houses in neighborhoods
26:13
where four or five people are living in
26:15
some of these houses that are pretty
26:17
good-sized or even not pretty good-sized
26:20
and even people my age living with
26:23
younger people where they rent a room so
26:27
we’re talking about sharing resources
26:29
you say everybody doesn’t need their own
26:31
home everybody doesn’t need their own
26:33
car everybody doesn’t need their own
26:35
lawnmower their own riding mower their
26:37
own whatever their own kitchen right so
26:40
why don’t we share these resources
26:42
well we’re Americans so we’re taught
26:43
that we have this you know pioneering
26:46
spirit and we should buy one of
26:47
everything for ourselves but I think
26:49
it’s starting to change and I think the
26:52
economy is enough who’s teaching us that
26:55
the guys who want to sell us
26:56
stuff well but who’s teaching us that we
26:59
don’t need to do that and that’s maybe
27:01
you and I are okay well I’m saying low
27:07
stomach from a marketing standpoint who
27:10
is teaching us and I think it’s
27:12
word-of-mouth right now and that’s where
27:14
the activism piece comes in because we
27:16
can make changes with things like this
27:18
and how we consume and how we live and
27:21
how we don’t live that can make such a
27:24
huge difference so I want to say one
27:28
thing about spiritual practice because
27:30
we’ve talked about a lot of things that
27:31
have to do with stuff okay well 15
27:34
seconds for spirit all right so I think
27:35
that the emergence of young younger
27:39
people discovering groups like pagans
27:41
and Universal Unitarian Universalists
27:44
that have a religious group that come
27:47
together I think there’s a bankruptcy
27:49
that we have in our culture around
27:51
spiritualism and it’s not about religion
27:54
and so I think people are going to start
27:55
discovering some of these wonderful
27:57
other practices that are more rooted in
28:00
nature and real life okay well with that
28:03
thought you’ve been listening to when
28:05
the biomass it’s the wind turbine with
28:07
Jay and Annie Warmke we want to thank
28:09
our producer Adam rich hey Adam didn’t
28:12
you win an Emmy Adam congratulations
28:15
thank you for just spending a little bit
28:17
of time with us and as your grandmother
28:19
hopefully told you the secret to a happy
28:22
and sustainable life is stop picking on
28:25
Adam clean up your own mess and eat your
28:28
vegetables thank you
28:58
[Music]
29:03
you can find more information on living
29:06
sustainably in our unsustainable world
29:08
at Blue Rock station calm
29:14
you
29:16
[Music]
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The unvarnished past, present and future of energy, from 1492 to today. Learn how early innovations in energy came largely due to man’s pursuit of beer. How Benjamin Franklin nearly killed himself electrocuting turkeys. How an Italian scientist believed he discovered the human soul while making frog leg soup for his girlfriend – which ultimately lead to the invention of the battery. And much, much more.
