The text is auto generated, so sorry if there are some odd translations…
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[Music]
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[Music]
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welcome to this edition of when the
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biomass it’s the wind turbine a
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discussion of sustainable living and
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what that means to you and me I’m Jay
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Warmke and I’m Annie Warmke and
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today we’re gonna talk about aging
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sustainably or all this crap is just
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getting old it’s passed on getting old
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it’s not about getting old that’s the
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crap so that’s what we’re gonna talk
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about today right so we were discussing
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preparing for this about all of the
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weird messages that our society gives us
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about getting okay weird maybe to you
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and me but I think they’re too too
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common and normal to everybody else
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which is what makes it feel so icky
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mm-hm
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so what what is it what is that message
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as you’ve interpreted it okay well first
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of all that I am supposed to be nothing
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to anybody except a teaching machine an
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ATM machine for insurance companies and
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the US government I’m old so I cannot
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make decisions for myself and nor can I
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continue to be productive as a person
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I’m ugly I’m achy my teeth are gonna
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fall out and I’m not going to be able to
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have sex what’s left these are lovely
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messages and it started this thing
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you’re gonna be a Walmart greeter no I
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am oh yeah well that’s the other thing
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because you got to keep working now
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because you can’t afford to be old but
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it didn’t start because I turned old
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enough to draw Social Security it
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started at age 50 when you chose to be
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kind of ornery not that you would ever
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do that and tease me about turning 50
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because I got something in the mail from
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AARP reminding me that I was getting old
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and I needed to be protected and
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defended because I was getting old you
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know what the good news was one day you
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turned 50 and you got the same
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but I was actually much younger when
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that happened how’s that work I don’t
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know so anyway so but we hear this
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I mean we’ve we’ve been on this rant
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periodically about the the idea of the
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American dream and I think the idea that
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people have as far as getting old there
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seems to be this cultural message of
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saying I want to get to an age where I
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can retire and then do nothing
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which seems like a very bizarre message
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I mean this is something from from our
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discussions when we’re talking about
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this that feels so odd that your whole
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goal your whole mission in life is to
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get to a point where you can do nothing
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well here’s the problem that’s that may
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well be true I mean I see it all I hear
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it all the time but the problem is that
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nothing in our culture tells us how to
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be old it tells us how to be sick it
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tells us how to not be productive it
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tells us how to stop acting like we
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should have a voice but it does not tell
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us how to be old well it seems that’s
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fairly common all of the main things
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that the really important things our
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society never actually prepares you for
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like how to decide upon a career or how
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to have children how to get married we
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know how to have different podcast but
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anyway oh come on no it’s not here’s the
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thing the things that are really vital
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we are not told how to do it properly
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that was kind of my point okay but
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getting old is perhaps the most
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important thing we’re gonna do in life
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what we contribute from that point in
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life where we are acknowledging yes our
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bodies are changing enough that maybe we
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have to do things a little differently
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you know I I frankly resent the fact
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that people repeatedly say Oh Annie
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you’re getting old and you’re gonna try
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not to say that as much that would be
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that would be good and very safe on your
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part but the the problem is they’re
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saying you can’t
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continue to be a goat herder or you
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can’t continue to work at a at a pace
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like you work at you know what are you
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trying to do while I’m trying to live my
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life I have goals in my life and I don’t
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see how I can suddenly come to a point
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where those goals aren’t valuable
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anymore or even important to me so that
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leads us into the concept of you know
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we’re all going to get older we’re all
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and I hate to break this to everybody
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we’re gonna die at some point yeah so so
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it seems realistic to plan for aging and
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to plan to die
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those we don’t talk about those things
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okay but I’m going to we’re gonna talk
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about so so I know you’re really big on
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plans you’re big on let’s let’s make
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plans and and actually I do recall back
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in in the late 1800s when we were in our
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20s and you know they we talked about
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getting old we talked about planning to
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be old when we were in our 20s yes we
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did mm-hmm and we actually laid out what
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we would do and you know what’s really
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weird we’re doing it yeah but but old
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age to me was like 40 so no actually yes
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I remember you saying that and being
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quite of those smarts no and we’ve been
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pretty pretty forthcoming on this and
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and part of the plan as I remember it
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and it may be faulty but we’re gonna do
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all these things that we the people
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often hold for retirement such as travel
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and and do those raising our
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grandchildren wasn’t really planned but
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anyway um do those when were younger and
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then try and set up a lifestyle as we
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age that requires physical activity the
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other thing we did was we bought we
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decided when we got into at least when I
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got into my late 30s I said look I I
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miss Ohio I miss my life in the country
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being a farm woman and I realized that
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as I age I need to get back to that in
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some way and so we
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early on in our lives purchased land and
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we weren’t even sure we just thought it
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was going to be a retreat but we started
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using that as our bunker as you called
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it our savings account and we developed
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that so at some point in life we were
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able to fall back on to that when we
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decided to make some major changes in
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our careers and stuff sure and that but
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that was our plan now other people may
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have different plans it might be I want
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to sail around the world or I want to do
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something else I want to get into
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woodworking I want to do whatever it is
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I want to do but it seems realistic that
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when you’re younger you should begin
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anticipating that and beginning the plan
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and I think what what’s proven to be the
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case at least for me is the idea of
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travel is less and less appealing as I
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get older you know we get into these I
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want my comfortable pillow I want my
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virgin
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so so the idea of when we were younger
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yeah we could sleep in a train station
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or sleep on the ground or deal with
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those things our stools in an airport
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those are always fun wasn’t because we
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were drinking we didn’t even have
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anything to drink so those are the
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inconveniences in the and the discomfort
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that are associated with traveling and I
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think most people don’t really factor
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that in to to their retirement plans I
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think most people have this fantasy I am
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done working I’m going to travel I’m
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gonna see the world I’m gonna do all
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these things that I put off for forty
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five years while I was working at a job
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that I didn’t much care for there’s the
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key the done working part means I’m
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leaving something I don’t want to do
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anymore and not replacing it with
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something of value that’s that’s the
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biggest message that you know and we
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just need really to say look we don’t
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accept that anymore that that we want to
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be valuable in this culture and so we
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don’t have to be relegated to travel too
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busy ourselves because we have a lot I
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mean when I look at all the things that
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are needed at schools today I wonder the
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reason why people are sitting at home
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say
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I’m lonely or I don’t have anything to
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do or watching television all day when
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those kids are waiting for someone to
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read with them and to care about them
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and there are millions of jobs out there
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I know people have to work a lot of
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people when they get to retirement age
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now have to work in order to make ends
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meet but there are ways to do that as
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well I mean it’s a revolution to think
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that maybe I have some skill sets that I
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could go out and do what I want to I’ve
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got some Social Security but I need a
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few hundred dollars more I don’t have to
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be relegated to be the Walmart greeter I
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I have stuff to contribute and the
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cultural message is we do not we are not
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of value because we are not producing
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and yet we’re told not to produce it’s
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crazy so we got to have a plan J and I
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know I say this every single podcast but
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to have a plan is an act of revolution
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it’s thumbing your nose at a culture
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that says if you just don’t plan you can
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be in enough debt that you’ll never get
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anywhere in life and I would say that
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part of our plan early on was to not be
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in debt and that helped us to be able to
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get to where we wanted to be when we
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needed to make major changes in our
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lives well I think another thing that we
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have experienced and I think anticipated
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but it’s still a frustration to go
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through is the institutions of aging
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that come at you like I’m thinking about
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Social Security and Medicare and those
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kind of things that put you into a
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bureaucracy where where you are expected
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to be a certain way and behave a certain
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way and for anarchists like yourself you
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know that is but I’m not going to be
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told how to take care of myself
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as opposed to a darky not so here here’s
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the thing you know I don’t really want
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to be caught up in a healthcare model
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that does not meet my needs and yet I
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find myself in that situation and so I
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came to you and I said look I can’t do
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this I’m scared I’m scared of a model
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that says I have to be a certain way and
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I’m going to
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I when I had to sign up for Medicare
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they said well you know you can’t just
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come and go and do what you want to if
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we if you’re in the hospital and you
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decide you don’t want to be there well
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maybe you won’t be allowed to leave well
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that that just made me wake out and or I
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couldn’t go the chiropractor because I
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needed to you know it was crazy but I
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said we have to understand what is it
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we’re going to do when there’s that
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point in life where I’ve I can’t go on
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there’s something wrong and I’m gonna
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die or I don’t have the ability to
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continue in my life you know having a
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plan then I don’t really need to think
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so much about what’s Medicare gonna do
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to me or not do me do to me or what
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Social Security going to do or what kind
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of fast-track do I have to be on to get
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into the to the assisted living facility
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at $4,000 a month you know I didn’t work
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all my life to be in those places and
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eat that food and live that way I can’t
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do it so this is a bit like when we talk
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about disaster preparedness you know the
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time to deal with these things is not in
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the middle of Christ now time to deal
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with them is when you’re rational and
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thinking these things are way medic so
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jealous when you’re fairly rational and
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and trying to deal with these things and
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that’s the moment to say all right when
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this happens because things are going to
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yeah but I have a healthcare plan I know
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exactly how I need to take care of
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myself and I know what I need to do in
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an emergency and so do you I don’t want
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to be told by somebody who doesn’t know
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anything about me that I have to comply
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to something that doesn’t work for me
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and there’s not only pressure from the
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institutions and we’ve talked about
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pressure from the government family the
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medical yeah family is a big big area
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because people try and put you into this
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box and telling me I’m getting old and I
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need to stop doing stuff where I need to
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go to a medical doctor because
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something’s wrong because my health care
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professional can’t help me you know it’s
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just crazy or I just should eat whatever
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I want because I’m going to die anyway
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yeah all right well time is marching on
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and at this moment I just want to take a
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break here to remind you that you are
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listening to when the biomass hits the
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wind turbine with Jay and Annie Warmke
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reminding you once again it is the end
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of the world as we know it and thank God
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today I’m really thanking God today
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there you go
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so the end and you know we we talked
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about these things like I guess in
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absolutes you know it’s the end of the
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world well that’s good it’s it you’re
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getting older it’s all it’s all sounding
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fairly bleak but why does that sound
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bleak I mean you know I remember I
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worked for the boss years and years ago
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when I was a young whippersnapper and he
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was he was this old ancient guy in his
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fifties and and he used to tell me like
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almost every day oh man don’t get old
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and I hear this so often it’s like oh
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don’t get old and I always used to just
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quit back well it it beats the
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alternative and it it really does I mean
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what is the alternative to aging well I
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think first of all it does come back to
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planning so in in our lives we’ve had a
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five year and a ten year plan and then
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suddenly we got to this point in our
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life where it wasn’t an age it was just
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sort of a sense when we were doing our
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planning and saying if planning feels
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differently now we’re thinking about
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this differently because if we’re
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thinking ten years out well wait a
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minute that’s kind of crazy let’s think
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two years or four years let’s think
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about the long-range plan we’ve had
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about publishing books and writing books
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and all that which we’re doing but we’re
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gonna do it differently now and let’s
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think about maybe there are some things
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that we want to do now that we might
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have put off until later and that’s not
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because either one of us are gonna die
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or anything like that we’re just saying
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look it’s not the same planning process
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we have to start thinking about things
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differently not that we’re going to be
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less productive or or less engaged or
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unhappy or sitting all the time that
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isn’t about that it’s just saying let’s
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be realistic about body changes idea
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changes things that may
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I have wanted to do that I I didn’t do I
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don’t have any of that but if I did this
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would be the time I would want to
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interject it into my life plan I know in
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in my consciousness any anyway something
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recently is crept in which is this idea
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of you know what there are not as many
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tomorrows as there were yesterday’s you
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know you don’t know you’re young there
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you go you never know yeah I’ll live to
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be a hundred and thirty-five or so
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you’ll miss me so but but it’s a weird
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realization it’s this weird thing of
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actually truly believing that you’re
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immortal you know I think everybody
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comes to this at some point maybe
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hopefully and where you just say don’t
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they don’t talk about it well but they
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never say okay literally there will be a
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time of non-existence and and of course
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that gets very very to the heart of all
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sorts of you know which is a place I
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don’t want to tread into at the moment
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but it is definitely going to be
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different so but it’s different before
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that and that’s what I’m talking about
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and I find it comforting to be able to
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know I understand where I want to be and
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how I’m going to get there I saw a film
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with Scott and Helen nearing nearing
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yeah and it’s a story of really the end
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of their life and that film documentary
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really really brought home the point
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that I have complete control as long as
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I have any senses left of how I’m going
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to live to the end and I think perhaps
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the most powerful thing we do is how we
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live until we’re going to die from this
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point on in life how we spend our money
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what we invest in with our youth in our
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world things we write thinks we say
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things we use I think all of that is
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really powerful because what we’re doing
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is teaching the next generation how to
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be old and how to die gracefully
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and that’s where I find that comfort
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it’s like okay it’s gonna happen well
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and I think we have
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we’ve all seen people who try and deny
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the fact they’re getting older and they
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they end up coming off kind of silly you
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know kind of a parody of themselves
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trying to be young when obviously
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they’re not young or trying to behave in
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a way that’s kind of pressure no but
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there is a lot of pressure because
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there’s real rejection for being old
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that you don’t look pretty anymore but
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what if we never looked pretty I mean
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hey we might look better when we’re home
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but I think there is this real challenge
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of changing what the culture is telling
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us which is a bold-faced lie about own
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age and creating our own definition of
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what it means to be old not just as a
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culture but what does it mean to be old
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for you because I love you and I want to
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honor what that means to you and what
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does it mean to me and once I’ve defined
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that then hey I’m good to go you know
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because I know what to expect well one
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of the things I wanted to touch on here
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during this discussion of diminishing
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life expectancy here is that oh that’s a
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nice way to put it not right so I’m
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thinking you know some we touched on
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earlier about people have this vision of
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I’m gonna work to a certain age I’m
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going to retire and then I’m gonna do
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what I want to do and and of course when
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we lived in Florida for so many years we
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see this kind of under a microscope of
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so many people whose constant everyday
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ordeal is how to fill their day with
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distraction well I think you’ll see that
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anywhere you go if you go to there it’s
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it’s concentrated it’s it’s like it’s
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like a pond after the water is mostly
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evaporated everything is kind of
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concentrated together that is a pretty
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good description of Florida actually but
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but I’m thinking about this that the
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people I admire the people I see who are
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aging in a way that I admire they’re
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they’re doing what they’ve done or doing
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what they want to do it’s not about
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leisure it’s about still being
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productive still pursuing a passion yeah
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whatever that passion
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that’s to be and and to me the ideal of
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retirement would be pursue those things
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that we still want to pursue without
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feeling a pressure that you have to earn
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money from it yeah that would be a
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luxury and a lot of people weren’t there
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but I I remember hearing Frank Lloyd
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Wright’s story he’s the famous architect
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and he thought when he was 72 which you
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know when you were 72 in his day that
20:36
was pretty old that his career was over
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but he designed and built more than 400
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buildings after that because his career
20:44
was revived and I can of those 400
20:47
buildings 400 of them have roofs that
20:49
leak okay but that doesn’t matter that’s
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not the part that’s my personal
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obsession but it made me feel like the
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way I was feeling already and that was
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that I have come full circle in my life
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and the work that I have done as a young
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woman has kind of collectively come back
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together again and so I created this
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full circle and I’m doing such
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interesting things I mean every day is
21:18
fascinating to me and it’s because it’s
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a collection of the work that I’ve done
21:23
over the last 40 years so it’s vital
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that I have that to stand on and that I
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can see it’s something that’s a tool and
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not just something I’m just going to
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throw away or put in a file drawer
21:37
somewhere it’s really about coming to
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the end of something and then saying hey
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how can I live off the rewards of this
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work that I’ve done to keep doing more
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of it hmm well we’ve talked about that
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where when we’ve come up with a new idea
21:54
at this stage of our professional
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development in our physical aging right
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since we’re talking about aging
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you’re not starting from zero again you
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know you have a history upon which to
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build yes and you know for some people
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that history may be negative I don’t
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know but but if hopefully you have
22:13
accomplished certain things that you can
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build upon and do the next thing that
22:17
you find interesting well everybody has
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skills even cooking skills but but does
22:22
everybody have
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I have a passionate about that’s about
22:26
self-actualization and and that’s a rare
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thing in our culture very very few
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people have actually realized
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self-actualization well you know tapping
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into the counselor of you speaking of
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your history how would you
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is there a way is there even a way of
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motivating that that passion in someone
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you know to say all right if you could
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do anything you want to do what would
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that be well first of all we have to
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feel safe enough to try yeah and that
22:56
when you look at Maslow’s hierarchy you
23:00
have to understand that safety is pretty
23:02
important and we don’t have that very
23:04
strong in our culture a sense of safety
23:07
and we have to feel safe in our
23:09
environment and also safe within
23:10
ourselves to be able to even reach out
23:13
and try to grasp what that means and I
23:16
think it’s really difficult mm-hm so we
23:20
get back to that one problem of
23:22
relearning behaviors that have been
23:24
learned over a lifetime but we can’t
23:26
change that we can’t change it I saw
23:28
It’s a Wonderful Life
23:29
I know things changed but but the thing
23:31
about the safety issue you know we do
23:33
live in a culture that perpetuates this
23:36
myth of how dangerous it is yeah and and
23:40
that then creates this mindset that
23:42
we’re not safe to try but we can change
23:44
our brain or the to form you need to
23:47
accumulate in order to be safe right you
23:50
got a pile and a big enough pile of crap
23:53
big enough thank you God
23:54
well it’s funny I was I was talking to a
23:56
my my baby brother about some of these
23:59
things and we’re talking about
24:00
we all make comparisons of ourselves you
24:03
know in comparison with our culture with
24:05
other people
24:06
and that’s one source of dissatisfaction
24:09
in a lot of folks they look at other
24:11
people and they get a sense that they’re
24:14
doing better than perhaps they really
24:16
are better in that they have more stuff
24:19
yeah I mean when beer when you’re
24:21
comparing yourself to another you feel
24:23
somehow wanting that these other people
24:26
and because you’re only seeing the
24:28
character of their life not the reality
24:31
of it but where I was going with this is
24:33
I was thinking about the difference
24:37
between
24:37
or you or the average person who will be
24:40
listening listening to this and and Bill
24:43
Gates I’ll use Bill Gates because he’s
24:45
the he’s very rich very rich the
24:47
difference between us and Bill Gates is
24:51
razor-thin right he has a house we have
24:55
a house he has a car we have a car he’s
24:57
like yeah I mean we’re probably happier
25:00
he’s not I don’t know maybe is but the
25:03
difference between the two of us is so
25:05
tiny yet the difference between us and
25:08
someone living on the street is the
25:10
Grand Canyon
25:11
so you mentioned Maslow’s hierarchy once
25:14
you’ve reached a certain level of within
25:19
that pyramid differences are minut I
25:22
don’t think there’s a big difference
25:23
between us and the people who are
25:25
homeless that is so thin if it happened
25:28
to you in a heart okay but but
25:31
physically safety comfort all of those
25:34
things to me anyway there’s a big gulf
25:36
there’s a big goal between oh there’s
25:40
another program look I’m thinking like
25:46
I’m making a wise point and you’re
25:48
looking at me like oh my child but I’m
25:54
gonna be good but I was making it like a
25:56
positive thing I know I okay well just
26:00
to say that that we all have
26:03
insecurities and lack confidence I don’t
26:05
care how much we have in life it’s how
26:07
we view things and the brain has
26:10
specific ways that it carries out the
26:14
stories in your life and the things that
26:15
you tell yourself and we can change that
26:18
you know I’ve talked about this before
26:20
that the that message of being insecure
26:23
or afraid or lacking confidence is is a
26:28
little electrical line that goes through
26:31
your brain and you’ve got a little story
26:32
like a home movie that you play about it
26:34
when something goes on or smell brings
26:37
back a memory and you can change those
26:39
things by telling yourself to shut up
26:41
and then give yourself another thought
26:44
and that’s how we can you ask me about
26:46
changing I know but we started off
26:48
talking about aging and now we’re into
26:51
but sexualization mental but if we want
26:55
to have a happy old age one of the
26:57
things we have to do is to try to heal
27:00
some of the crap that we’re dealt
27:01
because we are getting old some of the
27:04
crap we were dealt as kids and so a lot
27:06
of the crap that we’re dealt from our
27:09
culture because they’re lying to us at
27:11
every turn about how life really works
27:13
so I think we owe it to ourselves to
27:15
figure out how to change some of those
27:17
messages if we want to have a happy old
27:19
age or a happy young age to kind of get
27:22
over it move forward I don’t know if you
27:25
ever get over it but that’s okay it’s
27:27
how you tell yourself about it mm-hmm so
27:30
if you had had to sum it up sum it up
27:37
some how do i age happily in two minutes
27:39
or less come on okay go well I think
27:43
first of all you have a plan and you
27:46
plan for how you’re gonna be old so one
27:48
thing you could do is say I’m going to
27:49
leech off my kids and friends and while
27:52
you had them in the first right or you
27:54
could say I’m gonna do something
27:55
different from that maybe I’m going to
27:57
live in a group with other people and
27:58
not in some assisted living but whatever
28:01
be generous with yourself think about
28:04
how it would work I’m going to have a
28:06
plan of how I’m going to have my leisure
28:07
my transportation my community my tribe
28:12
my spiritual practice all the stuff you
28:15
should be doing when you’re 20 30 40 50
28:17
60 you really need to do in your old age
28:20
okay well you’ve been listening to when
28:22
the biomass hit’s the wind turbine with
28:24
Jay and Annie Warmke, we want to thank Adam Rich
28:26
our Emmy-winning producer and thank you
28:29
for spending just a little bit of time
28:31
with us and as your grandmother probably
28:32
told you the secret to a happy and
28:34
sustainable life is a nice with others
28:37
Jay clean up your own mess and don’t be
28:40
homeless please and eat your vegetables
28:43
don’t
29:11
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29:16
you can find more information on living
29:19
sustainably in our unsustainable world
29:21
at Blue Rock station calm
29:29
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