Our Podcast
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[Music]
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[Music]
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welcome to this edition of when the
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biomass it’s the wind turbine a
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discussion of sustainable living and
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what that means to you and me I’m Jay
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Warmke and I’m Annie Warmke and
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today we’re gonna talk about aging
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sustainably or all this crap is just
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getting old it’s passed on getting old
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it’s not about getting old that’s the
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crap so that’s what we’re gonna talk
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about today right so we were discussing
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preparing for this about all of the
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weird messages that our society gives us
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about getting okay weird maybe to you
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and me but I think they’re too too
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common and normal to everybody else
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which is what makes it feel so icky
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mm-hm
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so what what is it what is that message
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as you’ve interpreted it okay well first
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of all that I am supposed to be nothing
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to anybody except a teaching machine an
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ATM machine for insurance companies and
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the US government I’m old so I cannot
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make decisions for myself and nor can I
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continue to be productive as a person
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I’m ugly I’m achy my teeth are gonna
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fall out and I’m not going to be able to
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have sex what’s left these are lovely
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messages and it started this thing
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you’re gonna be a Walmart greeter no I
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am oh yeah well that’s the other thing
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because you got to keep working now
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because you can’t afford to be old but
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it didn’t start because I turned old
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enough to draw Social Security it
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started at age 50 when you chose to be
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kind of ornery not that you would ever
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do that and tease me about turning 50
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because I got something in the mail from
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AARP reminding me that I was getting old
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and I needed to be protected and
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defended because I was getting old you
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know what the good news was one day you
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turned 50 and you got the same
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but I was actually much younger when
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that happened how’s that work I don’t
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know so anyway so but we hear this
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I mean we’ve we’ve been on this rant
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periodically about the the idea of the
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American dream and I think the idea that
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people have as far as getting old there
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seems to be this cultural message of
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saying I want to get to an age where I
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can retire and then do nothing
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which seems like a very bizarre message
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I mean this is something from from our
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discussions when we’re talking about
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this that feels so odd that your whole
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goal your whole mission in life is to
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get to a point where you can do nothing
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well here’s the problem that’s that may
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well be true I mean I see it all I hear
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it all the time but the problem is that
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nothing in our culture tells us how to
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be old it tells us how to be sick it
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tells us how to not be productive it
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tells us how to stop acting like we
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should have a voice but it does not tell
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us how to be old well it seems that’s
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fairly common all of the main things
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that the really important things our
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society never actually prepares you for
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like how to decide upon a career or how
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to have children how to get married we
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know how to have different podcast but
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anyway oh come on no it’s not here’s the
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thing the things that are really vital
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we are not told how to do it properly
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that was kind of my point okay but
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getting old is perhaps the most
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important thing we’re gonna do in life
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what we contribute from that point in
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life where we are acknowledging yes our
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bodies are changing enough that maybe we
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have to do things a little differently
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you know I I frankly resent the fact
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that people repeatedly say Oh Annie
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you’re getting old and you’re gonna try
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not to say that as much that would be
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that would be good and very safe on your
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part but the the problem is they’re
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saying you can’t
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continue to be a goat herder or you
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can’t continue to work at a at a pace
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like you work at you know what are you
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trying to do while I’m trying to live my
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life I have goals in my life and I don’t
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see how I can suddenly come to a point
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where those goals aren’t valuable
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anymore or even important to me so that
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leads us into the concept of you know
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we’re all going to get older we’re all
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and I hate to break this to everybody
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we’re gonna die at some point yeah so so
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it seems realistic to plan for aging and
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to plan to die
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those we don’t talk about those things
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okay but I’m going to we’re gonna talk
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about so so I know you’re really big on
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plans you’re big on let’s let’s make
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plans and and actually I do recall back
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in in the late 1800s when we were in our
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20s and you know they we talked about
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getting old we talked about planning to
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be old when we were in our 20s yes we
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did mm-hmm and we actually laid out what
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we would do and you know what’s really
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weird we’re doing it yeah but but old
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age to me was like 40 so no actually yes
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I remember you saying that and being
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quite of those smarts no and we’ve been
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pretty pretty forthcoming on this and
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and part of the plan as I remember it
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and it may be faulty but we’re gonna do
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all these things that we the people
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often hold for retirement such as travel
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and and do those raising our
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grandchildren wasn’t really planned but
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anyway um do those when were younger and
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then try and set up a lifestyle as we
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age that requires physical activity the
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other thing we did was we bought we
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decided when we got into at least when I
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got into my late 30s I said look I I
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miss Ohio I miss my life in the country
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being a farm woman and I realized that
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as I age I need to get back to that in
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some way and so we
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early on in our lives purchased land and
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we weren’t even sure we just thought it
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was going to be a retreat but we started
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using that as our bunker as you called
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it our savings account and we developed
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that so at some point in life we were
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able to fall back on to that when we
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decided to make some major changes in
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our careers and stuff sure and that but
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that was our plan now other people may
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have different plans it might be I want
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to sail around the world or I want to do
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something else I want to get into
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woodworking I want to do whatever it is
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I want to do but it seems realistic that
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when you’re younger you should begin
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anticipating that and beginning the plan
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and I think what what’s proven to be the
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case at least for me is the idea of
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travel is less and less appealing as I
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get older you know we get into these I
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want my comfortable pillow I want my
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virgin
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so so the idea of when we were younger
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yeah we could sleep in a train station
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or sleep on the ground or deal with
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those things our stools in an airport
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those are always fun wasn’t because we
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were drinking we didn’t even have
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anything to drink so those are the
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inconveniences in the and the discomfort
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that are associated with traveling and I
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think most people don’t really factor
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that in to to their retirement plans I
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think most people have this fantasy I am
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done working I’m going to travel I’m
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gonna see the world I’m gonna do all
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these things that I put off for forty
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five years while I was working at a job
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that I didn’t much care for there’s the
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key the done working part means I’m
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leaving something I don’t want to do
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anymore and not replacing it with
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something of value that’s that’s the
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biggest message that you know and we
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just need really to say look we don’t
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accept that anymore that that we want to
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be valuable in this culture and so we
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don’t have to be relegated to travel too
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busy ourselves because we have a lot I
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mean when I look at all the things that
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are needed at schools today I wonder the
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reason why people are sitting at home
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say
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I’m lonely or I don’t have anything to
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do or watching television all day when
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those kids are waiting for someone to
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read with them and to care about them
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and there are millions of jobs out there
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I know people have to work a lot of
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people when they get to retirement age
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now have to work in order to make ends
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meet but there are ways to do that as
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well I mean it’s a revolution to think
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that maybe I have some skill sets that I
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could go out and do what I want to I’ve
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got some Social Security but I need a
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few hundred dollars more I don’t have to
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be relegated to be the Walmart greeter I
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I have stuff to contribute and the
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cultural message is we do not we are not
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of value because we are not producing
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and yet we’re told not to produce it’s
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crazy so we got to have a plan J and I
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know I say this every single podcast but
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to have a plan is an act of revolution
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it’s thumbing your nose at a culture
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that says if you just don’t plan you can
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be in enough debt that you’ll never get
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anywhere in life and I would say that
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part of our plan early on was to not be
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in debt and that helped us to be able to
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get to where we wanted to be when we
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needed to make major changes in our
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lives well I think another thing that we
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have experienced and I think anticipated
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but it’s still a frustration to go
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through is the institutions of aging
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that come at you like I’m thinking about
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Social Security and Medicare and those
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kind of things that put you into a
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bureaucracy where where you are expected
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to be a certain way and behave a certain
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way and for anarchists like yourself you
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know that is but I’m not going to be
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told how to take care of myself
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as opposed to a darky not so here here’s
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the thing you know I don’t really want
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to be caught up in a healthcare model
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that does not meet my needs and yet I
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find myself in that situation and so I
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came to you and I said look I can’t do
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this I’m scared I’m scared of a model
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that says I have to be a certain way and
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I’m going to
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I when I had to sign up for Medicare
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they said well you know you can’t just
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come and go and do what you want to if
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we if you’re in the hospital and you
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decide you don’t want to be there well
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maybe you won’t be allowed to leave well
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that that just made me wake out and or I
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couldn’t go the chiropractor because I
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needed to you know it was crazy but I
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said we have to understand what is it
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we’re going to do when there’s that
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point in life where I’ve I can’t go on
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there’s something wrong and I’m gonna
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die or I don’t have the ability to
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continue in my life you know having a
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plan then I don’t really need to think
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so much about what’s Medicare gonna do
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to me or not do me do to me or what
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Social Security going to do or what kind
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of fast-track do I have to be on to get
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into the to the assisted living facility
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at $4,000 a month you know I didn’t work
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all my life to be in those places and
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eat that food and live that way I can’t
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do it so this is a bit like when we talk
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about disaster preparedness you know the
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time to deal with these things is not in
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the middle of Christ now time to deal
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with them is when you’re rational and
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thinking these things are way medic so
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jealous when you’re fairly rational and
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and trying to deal with these things and
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that’s the moment to say all right when
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this happens because things are going to
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yeah but I have a healthcare plan I know
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exactly how I need to take care of
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myself and I know what I need to do in
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an emergency and so do you I don’t want
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to be told by somebody who doesn’t know
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anything about me that I have to comply
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to something that doesn’t work for me
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and there’s not only pressure from the
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institutions and we’ve talked about
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pressure from the government family the
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medical yeah family is a big big area
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because people try and put you into this
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box and telling me I’m getting old and I
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need to stop doing stuff where I need to
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go to a medical doctor because
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something’s wrong because my health care
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professional can’t help me you know it’s
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just crazy or I just should eat whatever
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I want because I’m going to die anyway
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yeah all right well time is marching on
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and at this moment I just want to take a
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break here to remind you that you are
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listening to when the biomass hits the
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wind turbine with Jay and Annie Warmke
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reminding you once again it is the end
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of the world as we know it and thank God
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today I’m really thanking God today
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there you go
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so the end and you know we we talked
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about these things like I guess in
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absolutes you know it’s the end of the
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world well that’s good it’s it you’re
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getting older it’s all it’s all sounding
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fairly bleak but why does that sound
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bleak I mean you know I remember I
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worked for the boss years and years ago
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when I was a young whippersnapper and he
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was he was this old ancient guy in his
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fifties and and he used to tell me like
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almost every day oh man don’t get old
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and I hear this so often it’s like oh
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don’t get old and I always used to just
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quit back well it it beats the
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alternative and it it really does I mean
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what is the alternative to aging well I
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think first of all it does come back to
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planning so in in our lives we’ve had a
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five year and a ten year plan and then
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suddenly we got to this point in our
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life where it wasn’t an age it was just
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sort of a sense when we were doing our
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planning and saying if planning feels
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differently now we’re thinking about
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this differently because if we’re
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thinking ten years out well wait a
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minute that’s kind of crazy let’s think
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two years or four years let’s think
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about the long-range plan we’ve had
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about publishing books and writing books
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and all that which we’re doing but we’re
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gonna do it differently now and let’s
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think about maybe there are some things
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that we want to do now that we might
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have put off until later and that’s not
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because either one of us are gonna die
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or anything like that we’re just saying
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look it’s not the same planning process
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we have to start thinking about things
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differently not that we’re going to be
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less productive or or less engaged or
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unhappy or sitting all the time that
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isn’t about that it’s just saying let’s
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be realistic about body changes idea
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changes things that may
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I have wanted to do that I I didn’t do I
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don’t have any of that but if I did this
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would be the time I would want to
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interject it into my life plan I know in
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in my consciousness any anyway something
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recently is crept in which is this idea
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of you know what there are not as many
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tomorrows as there were yesterday’s you
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know you don’t know you’re young there
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you go you never know yeah I’ll live to
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be a hundred and thirty-five or so
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you’ll miss me so but but it’s a weird
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realization it’s this weird thing of
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actually truly believing that you’re
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immortal you know I think everybody
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comes to this at some point maybe
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hopefully and where you just say don’t
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they don’t talk about it well but they
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never say okay literally there will be a
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time of non-existence and and of course
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that gets very very to the heart of all
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sorts of you know which is a place I
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don’t want to tread into at the moment
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but it is definitely going to be
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different so but it’s different before
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that and that’s what I’m talking about
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and I find it comforting to be able to
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know I understand where I want to be and
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how I’m going to get there I saw a film
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with Scott and Helen nearing nearing
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yeah and it’s a story of really the end
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of their life and that film documentary
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really really brought home the point
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that I have complete control as long as
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I have any senses left of how I’m going
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to live to the end and I think perhaps
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the most powerful thing we do is how we
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live until we’re going to die from this
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point on in life how we spend our money
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what we invest in with our youth in our
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world things we write thinks we say
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things we use I think all of that is
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really powerful because what we’re doing
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is teaching the next generation how to
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be old and how to die gracefully
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and that’s where I find that comfort
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it’s like okay it’s gonna happen well
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and I think we have
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we’ve all seen people who try and deny
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the fact they’re getting older and they
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they end up coming off kind of silly you
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know kind of a parody of themselves
18:05
trying to be young when obviously
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they’re not young or trying to behave in
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a way that’s kind of pressure no but
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there is a lot of pressure because
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there’s real rejection for being old
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that you don’t look pretty anymore but
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what if we never looked pretty I mean
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hey we might look better when we’re home
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but I think there is this real challenge
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of changing what the culture is telling
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us which is a bold-faced lie about own
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age and creating our own definition of
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what it means to be old not just as a
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culture but what does it mean to be old
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for you because I love you and I want to
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honor what that means to you and what
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does it mean to me and once I’ve defined
18:48
that then hey I’m good to go you know
18:51
because I know what to expect well one
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of the things I wanted to touch on here
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during this discussion of diminishing
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life expectancy here is that oh that’s a
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nice way to put it not right so I’m
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thinking you know some we touched on
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earlier about people have this vision of
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I’m gonna work to a certain age I’m
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going to retire and then I’m gonna do
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what I want to do and and of course when
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we lived in Florida for so many years we
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see this kind of under a microscope of
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so many people whose constant everyday
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ordeal is how to fill their day with
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distraction well I think you’ll see that
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anywhere you go if you go to there it’s
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it’s concentrated it’s it’s like it’s
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like a pond after the water is mostly
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evaporated everything is kind of
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concentrated together that is a pretty
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good description of Florida actually but
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but I’m thinking about this that the
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people I admire the people I see who are
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aging in a way that I admire they’re
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they’re doing what they’ve done or doing
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what they want to do it’s not about
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leisure it’s about still being
20:05
productive still pursuing a passion yeah
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whatever that passion
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that’s to be and and to me the ideal of
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retirement would be pursue those things
20:14
that we still want to pursue without
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feeling a pressure that you have to earn
20:20
money from it yeah that would be a
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luxury and a lot of people weren’t there
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but I I remember hearing Frank Lloyd
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Wright’s story he’s the famous architect
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and he thought when he was 72 which you
20:33
know when you were 72 in his day that
20:36
was pretty old that his career was over
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but he designed and built more than 400
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buildings after that because his career
20:44
was revived and I can of those 400
20:47
buildings 400 of them have roofs that
20:49
leak okay but that doesn’t matter that’s
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not the part that’s my personal
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obsession but it made me feel like the
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way I was feeling already and that was
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that I have come full circle in my life
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and the work that I have done as a young
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woman has kind of collectively come back
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together again and so I created this
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full circle and I’m doing such
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interesting things I mean every day is
21:18
fascinating to me and it’s because it’s
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a collection of the work that I’ve done
21:23
over the last 40 years so it’s vital
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that I have that to stand on and that I
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can see it’s something that’s a tool and
21:32
not just something I’m just going to
21:34
throw away or put in a file drawer
21:37
somewhere it’s really about coming to
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the end of something and then saying hey
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how can I live off the rewards of this
21:46
work that I’ve done to keep doing more
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of it hmm well we’ve talked about that
21:51
where when we’ve come up with a new idea
21:54
at this stage of our professional
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development in our physical aging right
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since we’re talking about aging
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you’re not starting from zero again you
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know you have a history upon which to
22:06
build yes and you know for some people
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that history may be negative I don’t
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know but but if hopefully you have
22:13
accomplished certain things that you can
22:15
build upon and do the next thing that
22:17
you find interesting well everybody has
22:19
skills even cooking skills but but does
22:22
everybody have
22:23
I have a passionate about that’s about
22:26
self-actualization and and that’s a rare
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thing in our culture very very few
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people have actually realized
22:33
self-actualization well you know tapping
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into the counselor of you speaking of
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your history how would you
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is there a way is there even a way of
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motivating that that passion in someone
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you know to say all right if you could
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do anything you want to do what would
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that be well first of all we have to
22:54
feel safe enough to try yeah and that
22:56
when you look at Maslow’s hierarchy you
23:00
have to understand that safety is pretty
23:02
important and we don’t have that very
23:04
strong in our culture a sense of safety
23:07
and we have to feel safe in our
23:09
environment and also safe within
23:10
ourselves to be able to even reach out
23:13
and try to grasp what that means and I
23:16
think it’s really difficult mm-hm so we
23:20
get back to that one problem of
23:22
relearning behaviors that have been
23:24
learned over a lifetime but we can’t
23:26
change that we can’t change it I saw
23:28
It’s a Wonderful Life
23:29
I know things changed but but the thing
23:31
about the safety issue you know we do
23:33
live in a culture that perpetuates this
23:36
myth of how dangerous it is yeah and and
23:40
that then creates this mindset that
23:42
we’re not safe to try but we can change
23:44
our brain or the to form you need to
23:47
accumulate in order to be safe right you
23:50
got a pile and a big enough pile of crap
23:53
big enough thank you God
23:54
well it’s funny I was I was talking to a
23:56
my my baby brother about some of these
23:59
things and we’re talking about
24:00
we all make comparisons of ourselves you
24:03
know in comparison with our culture with
24:05
other people
24:06
and that’s one source of dissatisfaction
24:09
in a lot of folks they look at other
24:11
people and they get a sense that they’re
24:14
doing better than perhaps they really
24:16
are better in that they have more stuff
24:19
yeah I mean when beer when you’re
24:21
comparing yourself to another you feel
24:23
somehow wanting that these other people
24:26
and because you’re only seeing the
24:28
character of their life not the reality
24:31
of it but where I was going with this is
24:33
I was thinking about the difference
24:37
between
24:37
or you or the average person who will be
24:40
listening listening to this and and Bill
24:43
Gates I’ll use Bill Gates because he’s
24:45
the he’s very rich very rich the
24:47
difference between us and Bill Gates is
24:51
razor-thin right he has a house we have
24:55
a house he has a car we have a car he’s
24:57
like yeah I mean we’re probably happier
25:00
he’s not I don’t know maybe is but the
25:03
difference between the two of us is so
25:05
tiny yet the difference between us and
25:08
someone living on the street is the
25:10
Grand Canyon
25:11
so you mentioned Maslow’s hierarchy once
25:14
you’ve reached a certain level of within
25:19
that pyramid differences are minut I
25:22
don’t think there’s a big difference
25:23
between us and the people who are
25:25
homeless that is so thin if it happened
25:28
to you in a heart okay but but
25:31
physically safety comfort all of those
25:34
things to me anyway there’s a big gulf
25:36
there’s a big goal between oh there’s
25:40
another program look I’m thinking like
25:46
I’m making a wise point and you’re
25:48
looking at me like oh my child but I’m
25:54
gonna be good but I was making it like a
25:56
positive thing I know I okay well just
26:00
to say that that we all have
26:03
insecurities and lack confidence I don’t
26:05
care how much we have in life it’s how
26:07
we view things and the brain has
26:10
specific ways that it carries out the
26:14
stories in your life and the things that
26:15
you tell yourself and we can change that
26:18
you know I’ve talked about this before
26:20
that the that message of being insecure
26:23
or afraid or lacking confidence is is a
26:28
little electrical line that goes through
26:31
your brain and you’ve got a little story
26:32
like a home movie that you play about it
26:34
when something goes on or smell brings
26:37
back a memory and you can change those
26:39
things by telling yourself to shut up
26:41
and then give yourself another thought
26:44
and that’s how we can you ask me about
26:46
changing I know but we started off
26:48
talking about aging and now we’re into
26:51
but sexualization mental but if we want
26:55
to have a happy old age one of the
26:57
things we have to do is to try to heal
27:00
some of the crap that we’re dealt
27:01
because we are getting old some of the
27:04
crap we were dealt as kids and so a lot
27:06
of the crap that we’re dealt from our
27:09
culture because they’re lying to us at
27:11
every turn about how life really works
27:13
so I think we owe it to ourselves to
27:15
figure out how to change some of those
27:17
messages if we want to have a happy old
27:19
age or a happy young age to kind of get
27:22
over it move forward I don’t know if you
27:25
ever get over it but that’s okay it’s
27:27
how you tell yourself about it mm-hmm so
27:30
if you had had to sum it up sum it up
27:37
some how do i age happily in two minutes
27:39
or less come on okay go well I think
27:43
first of all you have a plan and you
27:46
plan for how you’re gonna be old so one
27:48
thing you could do is say I’m going to
27:49
leech off my kids and friends and while
27:52
you had them in the first right or you
27:54
could say I’m gonna do something
27:55
different from that maybe I’m going to
27:57
live in a group with other people and
27:58
not in some assisted living but whatever
28:01
be generous with yourself think about
28:04
how it would work I’m going to have a
28:06
plan of how I’m going to have my leisure
28:07
my transportation my community my tribe
28:12
my spiritual practice all the stuff you
28:15
should be doing when you’re 20 30 40 50
28:17
60 you really need to do in your old age
28:20
okay well you’ve been listening to when
28:22
the biomass hit’s the wind turbine with
28:24
Jay and Annie Warmke, we want to thank Adam Rich
28:26
our Emmy-winning producer and thank you
28:29
for spending just a little bit of time
28:31
with us and as your grandmother probably
28:32
told you the secret to a happy and
28:34
sustainable life is a nice with others
28:37
Jay clean up your own mess and don’t be
28:40
homeless please and eat your vegetables
28:43
don’t
29:11
[Music]
29:16
you can find more information on living
29:19
sustainably in our unsustainable world
29:21
at Blue Rock station calm
29:29
[Music]
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The unvarnished past, present and future of energy, from 1492 to today. Learn how early innovations in energy came largely due to man’s pursuit of beer. How Benjamin Franklin nearly killed himself electrocuting turkeys. How an Italian scientist believed he discovered the human soul while making frog leg soup for his girlfriend – which ultimately lead to the invention of the battery. And much, much more.