The text is auto generated, so sorry if there are some odd translations…
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[Music]
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[Music]
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welcome to this edition of when the
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biomass it’s the wind turbine a
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discussion of sustainable living and
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what that means to you and me I’m Jay
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warmke and I’m Annie Warmke and
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together we’re going to talk about
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raising healthy goats part for the
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birthing addition or gosh it’s a shame
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those critters grow up I change that or
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Mamamia
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oh I thought you’re gonna sing me a song
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but we are talking about right now as
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we’re recording this you’re going
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through the trauma the annual trauma
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birthing goats and no it’s trauma for
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you because you have to put up with me
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right well you worry worried like an
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expectant grandmother
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so tell tell a little bit about this the
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birthing process I mean that’s one of
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the big issues there you don’t have to
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go into the gory details we need
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pictures for that so well the challenge
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is that most goat breeds have a season
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when they can get pregnant that begins
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sometime towards the end of August and
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runs till maybe the middle of February
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there are a couple breeds that can get
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pregnant year-round but they’re not that
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common in the US so if they are I don’t
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know about it and I don’t understand why
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anybody would want to have a goat that’s
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going to come into heat every 21 days
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and you got to worry about it getting
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pregnant so I try to have my goat kids
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born in the winter because I have more
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time to worry about them what time well
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not just to worry but also to go to the
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barn in the middle of the night maybe
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two times in the night to check on them
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and but it the idea is they’re going to
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be pregnant about 20 weeks so you just
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want to start from when they come into
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heat and then you’re going to measure
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that 20 weeks and you’re going to decide
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is that when I really want to be out in
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the cold or the heat or whatever having
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kids there’s a lot of nutrition that
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needs to be dealt with with a goat
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that’s going to get pregnant and then be
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pregnant for those 20 weeks and then
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also produce milk for maybe
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a long period of time and that’s a big
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strain on the body and if you think
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about it it’s the same for human beings
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we we don’t do too good of a job
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sometimes it’s teaching ourselves around
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how we’re going to nurse a baby and and
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do all the right things to have and
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carry that baby but it’s a lot of the
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same stuff around minerals and and
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general nutrition so how do we help that
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go to be as healthy as she can be and
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one of the challenges that we have in
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North America is a depletion of selenium
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and sometimes copper in the soil and
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that’s pretty bad because the plants
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then cannot pull that up into the main
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part of the plant so that the animal is
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ingesting or eating enough selenium and
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enough copper so there are deficiencies
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and these can cause big problems with
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birthing they can cause problems with
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aborting the fetus they can cause
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problems with the kid and how it’s
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placed in the body when it’s going to
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come out of the body and also in passing
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the placenta which is all the stuff that
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the baby is in when it’s inside of the
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mother and those things all have to
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happen according to a process and if
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they don’t then there are a lot of other
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problems that happen along the way well
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I think a lot of people if they thought
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about it and I’m guessing they don’t
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give birthing of goats a great deal of
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thought on a daily basis but if it is a
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dairy producing animal it needs to get
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pregnant and give birth periodically
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otherwise no milk yeah it doesn’t
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produce milk forever well some goats
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will keep going
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but that’s unique to that goat system
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it’s not a breed issue it’s just like
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you happen to get on and that you have
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kept healthy enough and good enough
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minerals and good enough nutrition I
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remember your first coat Eleanor didn’t
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she go like two years yeah she could go
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two years of milking yeah she did do
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that and she didn’t want to dry up one
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hundred or two so so the other part of
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this equation is the buck which is the
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male part of this and he’s the one that
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decides how many
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she’s gonna have no she’s gonna decide
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how many kids he’s gonna decide what
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kind of whether they’re male or female
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and so he’s got to be home tonight wait
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wait decides I’m assuming this is
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genetically not they’re sitting down
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having a planning meeting and going
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we’re gonna have kids together what do
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you think you’re just doing different
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stories and getting to target for their
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clothing and things yeah no they don’t
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really have a discussion in fact the
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buck is if you have a buck in your herd
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the whole time that that herd is in the
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field doing whatever unless somebody’s
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in heat that buck is nothing he has one
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job and that is to make babies and he
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doesn’t guard he’s selfish he’s really
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selfish because he’s nice and big and he
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can just sling his weight around but the
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the queen of the herd and the other
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goats that are high up in the herd they
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pretty much keep him in place and I know
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that’s an issue for you because you need
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to rotate the buck you know for genetic
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diversity you don’t want to improve
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although sometimes that can happen and a
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first generation in the goat world they
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think is okay in my experience the that
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first generation they say they’re
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breeding for genetics meaning they’re
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looking for certain qualities in that
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animal but in my experience I see
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smaller animal unless healthy animal and
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that’s just my experience so genetically
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we want to have a buck that is not
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related to the DOE that he’s going to
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breed with and that’s the that’s the
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best he’s got to be healthy and he’s got
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to be ready for the job he’s got to be
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able to go the distance so you don’t
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want him to be running with the herd and
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have several joes that come in to heat
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at the same time he can actually drop
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dead from exertion and some people think
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that’s funny but the reality is you want
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to be a good goat herder and if you’re
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going to be good at it you’re going to
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understand his job and how to keep him
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healthy and doing what he needs to do to
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make really wonderful kids
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so I know that you keep the buck
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separated most of the time but since
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these are herd animals you you need to
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have companion animals in with the buck
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right so you put a weather or or or I
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have two bucks but they also are our
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fields and everything is set up so they
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can see the other goats as well so there
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they might be upset and banging on the
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fence but that’s because somebody’s in
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heat not because they’re mad at being
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kept away from the herd but in the
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summer they’re all together everybody’s
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happy
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they know their place they have great
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respect for the Queen and her minions
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and and all as well but again keeping
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everybody healthy keeping everybody
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going knowing that come the end of
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August maybe maybe we won’t breed till
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December but we’ve got to keep everybody
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going and and at their peak as best we
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can so that they produce good kids the
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other thing is the quality of the animal
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so if you’re going to breed animals
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don’t start with a sick one because
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you’re not going to end up with a good
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return from that in more ways than one
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and perhaps a dead animal see this all
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the time online right now it’s winter
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and lots of pictures of dead babies and
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dead dough’s because they bought a doe
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at an auction or a couple of doze they
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don’t know anything about the animal
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they don’t know anything about goats and
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she has a problem the kids got her leg
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twisted it under the hip and they wait
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for the vet they don’t go in and see
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what to do about it
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so goats require a lot of knowledge and
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a lot of vets don’t really know much
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about goats so if you want to be a goat
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herder you better be prepared to be
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somewhat of a veterinarian well one
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thing and you’re talking about the
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knowledge and I know you’ve got a real
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feel for it you’ll come back after
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spending time up there going you know
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grace is going to I think she’s going
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into labor she’s gonna have a kid any
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minute an hour today or tomorrow at the
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latest and I look at these goats and I’m
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like I don’t know they look the same to
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me
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so what are you looking for when when
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we’re gonna go into labor yeah
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what is it that you see that I don’t see
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well first of all there’s gonna you’re
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actually going to see as they progress
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you’re gonna actually see movement of
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the kids that are inside of her and
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they’re moving around and I’ve got a
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stethoscope so I can listen for
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heartbeats and I can see when they
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change position and get into position to
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birth and then which is different is
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like she carries them like two
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saddlebags and then when they’re ready
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to be born one of them moves hopefully
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just one at a time moves into position
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with their feet forward and their nose
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down on those feet and that’s the way
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you hope they’re going to come out there
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their butts there where their vagina and
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their anuses has it gets very puffy and
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there’s a lot of blood there and so it
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gets pink very pink and swollen and then
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at some point they start to do what’s
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called bagging up and that means that
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they start to produce some milk and that
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milk is the colostrum which is needed by
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the baby because it has all of the
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immunity that the mother has and we want
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that passed on to the baby it keeps them
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fairly safe for the first six months of
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life and then the next thing is that
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within about 48 hours of kidding there
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are muscles at the tailbone on the top
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of the tailbone and those muscles will
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go from being fairly tight to being like
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melted butter and that is just the
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muscles relaxing and getting ready to
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prepare to allow that great big blob to
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come and be passed through there and
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there are other things when she actually
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goes into soft labor or maybe prior to
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that so I have a goat that two weeks
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before she kids she passes what’s called
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the mucous plug and it’s like somebody
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sneezed and it’s a lot of snot and then
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she might pass a little bit more in a
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week before she kids and then pretty
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much right on the money at two weeks
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she’s going to she’s going to give birth
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other ones don’t pass any of that until
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they’re starting into soft labor and in
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the soft labor they’ll kind of go off on
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their own sometimes they don’t do
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anything I mean I’ve had a couple that
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just poof and there’s the baby
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but mostly there
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go off on their own this is a very
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natural thing to do and and they will
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stare at the wall of the barn or at the
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fence or something like that and then
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and then they might paw at the ground as
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they start having contractions closer
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together and cry
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they might lay down on their side so
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they can push so they have a lot of
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different ways just like women do if
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they weren’t forced to lay down on a bed
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to begin to push that baby out and what
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you’re hoping to see the best possible
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return is those two little feet that are
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sticking out and the beginning of a
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little hopefully the front feet well the
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back feet you can deal with that if you
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have to because the butts pretty big
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coming out too but you got to know what
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you’re looking at because there could be
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one foot and then where’s the other one
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or there could be no feet or there could
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be two feet and no head these are all
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things you can go online and look at
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pictures and see what to do about moving
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those kids and you’ve got to be ready
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with a birthing kit you need to have
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some way to lubricate up your hands you
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need some plastic gloves or something to
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put on your hands and you need to be
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prepared to go in there and and turn the
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turn the baby so what would you have on
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hand and getting ready for this birth
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well I have a basket that I keep a big
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basket so if she’s gonna have twins and
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they’re coming pretty quickly then the
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first one I’m gonna put in the basket so
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I don’t step on it or she doesn’t step
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on it and leave it there until the next
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one comes in that basket I keep two
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plastic boxes that have lids on them and
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they contain things like very sharp
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scissors that are wrapped in a nice
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clean cloth so that I can cut the
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umbilical cord and then another pair of
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scissors that I can do other things with
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that I might need to do which I don’t
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know but I just don’t want to use both
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that I don’t want to use the scissors
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for the umbilical cord for anything else
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I have a saline solution and a squirt
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bottle a big one so I can sanitize
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things without burning
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I gosh what else do I have I have lots
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of towels and washcloths and water so
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that I can wash my hands I have my
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charger for my telephone I have a baby
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bottle warmer so I can heat water
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quickly if I need it for some reason I
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have acidophilus which I use to put on
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the umbilical cord after I cut it and I
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also have cayenne pepper so if the
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umbilical cord bleeds heavily I can stop
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the bleeding with the cayenne pepper
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okay well I’m gonna interrupt you right
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there and just remind everybody that you
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are listening to when the biomass it’s
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the wind turbine with Jay and Annie Warmke
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reminding you once again that it is
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in fact the end of the world as we know
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it thank God and thank God and we’re
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talking about birthing goats and that
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may sound a little bit bizarre from a
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sustainability standpoint but I think a
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lot of people when they think about
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sustainability and they think about
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homesteading they do think about raising
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their own food and as part of this
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fantasy that emerges in a lot of
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people’s you get bless you you’re
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allergic to fantasies they get this idea
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I’m gonna raise animals I’m going to you
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know have my own milk I’m gonna have my
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own eggs I’m gonna do all of those
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things and it’s all good but goats
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clearly are very sustainable livestock
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they’re they’re fairly light on the land
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they are sociopaths and you got to be
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prepared for that in your opinion but
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they’re but they’re easy to deal with in
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a small homestead and they provide
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mostly for women because you can make
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them do what you want them to do yeah I
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mean if you get knocked over you know I
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mean you can get hurt by a goat well you
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could be killed by a buck but I don’t
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I’m not going to keep animals like that
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we’re we’re looking at peace agree so I
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want to know I can put my face in the
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face of that animal and trust their
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response to me so when I’m bending over
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them to help them kid or help them with
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an injury I know they’re not going to
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attack me so if you’re if you’re living
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the life you know living the dream
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couldn’t be raising goats
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you’re gonna be milking these goats well
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as part of that process they’ve got to
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have kids and of course there’s nothing
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cuter than little baby goats jumping
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around and as I said in the introduction
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it’s a really a shame that they do grow
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up because they’re so we can say that
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about most babies yeah yeah most people
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I know you know but let me say that I
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think we live in a culture that believes
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in the lassie syndrome and lassie has
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been a very famous collie dog over the
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years and and that dog knew everything
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and it knew to go get things and save
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people and rescue drowning people I mean
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that dog could do everything but soon
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I’m wondering where you’re going
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wait a minute you can do everything but
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stink Singh this chart bangle banner in
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Spanish and so we then as it culture
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adopted this attitude that animals know
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what to do instinctively
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and so all dogs know to come and stay
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and shut up and whatever and they don’t
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and just I just had this vision of like
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a goat playing the role of laughs Jimmy
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fell down the well against it yeah he’s
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gonna die he’s trying to get in my food
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and I head-butted him is there anything
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to eat
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but it’s so I think we have this
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attitude about goats and we’ll say
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things very dismissive like oh they’ll
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eat anything though you know it’s not
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true and so we have this lassie syndrome
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about goats and so the fact that an
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animal is pregnant does not mean that
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they have the ability to deliver that
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goat or carry it to term I think that’s
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true with most domesticated animals
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right there have been altered in some
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way well humans are domesticated animal
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so okay so you you’ve told us what you
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look for when when goes in yeah let’s
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talk about the psychology psychology of
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why on earth you would raise goats or
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the psychology of them
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well the psychology of why some people
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would raise goats because oh my word
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they don’t they know nothing I have
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resorted on Facebook to write please go
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to the library and read some books about
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goats they have pictures because I think
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you should do that about children as
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well well I know but I’m not even going
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there with that because
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that’s a whole other story but anyway
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that the thing with goats is that they
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do have a certain psychology about them
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and so they know who they like they know
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who they don’t like
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so if it was clear they didn’t like me I
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would not be birthing kids with them
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they’d have to go to somebody else
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because they have to be able to trust me
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and it’s a it’s a time of them changing
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tremendously so you have a doling that
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would be a female that is less than that
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that’s never had kids and she might be
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hell on wheels just a real corker but
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then she gets pregnant and if she gets
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to the place of gonna be in labor and
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all that she becomes a whole different
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animal and and I’m talking about Tilly
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right now Tilly has been just could jump
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over anything and never let you never
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come to her name even though she look up
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and know her name she run from me hahaha
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wait till I get right to her and then
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take off now she’s like oh you want me
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to come and she goes and stands where
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she’s supposed to to wait for me to feed
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her I don’t even have to tie her up and
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I got to think that that has something
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to do with the birthing process and
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being pregnant and then when they go
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into labor I need them to trust me that
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I can be in there with them that they
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psychologically feel like it’s okay for
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Annie to be there with me she’s the head
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of the herd if they abort so I’ve had a
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couple of goats where they got
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head-butted and they had an abortion one
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of them we had to end up selling because
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she never got over it she wouldn’t stop
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crying it drove me insane that was the
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guy who sprayed across the road and she
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aborted from the spray but they they
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feel things they care about things no
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they’re not humans but they do care
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deeply and when their DNA kicks in
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once they are in labor they start
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calling to the baby
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they have different sounds they have
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their own language
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each goat has its own idea about this
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but they start calling to the baby
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they might start licking themselves or
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licking everything because that’s their
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DNA telling them you must lick the baby
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and clean the baby and keep the baby
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clean and when the baby’s coming out
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they are calling to the baby sometimes
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the baby will call back well it’s not
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even born yet and that’s pretty cute but
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not always usually they’re kind of in a
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stunned face trying to come through that
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tiny opening to get out and and then
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once that baby gets out usually the the
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mama will stand up for the delivery so
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the baby drops and that breaks the
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umbilical cord she doesn’t always do it
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sometimes she’s too tired and she’s like
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get me out of this and the baby comes
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out and you you just wait for her to
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break the cord she’ll chew it or it’ll
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somehow break I try not to touch the kid
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until she has done her job usually that
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she’s cleaned the kid sometimes there’s
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a lot of mucus in the nose and I might
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get some clean cloth and wipe the nose
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out or even suction it with a little
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baby squeegee a human baby squeegee ball
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one of those blue ones just to make sure
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there’s nothing hurting the the airway
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so it’s breathing yeah but I don’t get
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in the way and if I think that there’s
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any chance that she’s going to have a
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problem accepting the kid I won’t touch
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the kid until she shows me that she’s
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going to let that kid latch on and drink
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milk and do what needs to be done
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because the most important thing is
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every goat deserves to have a mama and
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they need that they learn how to be a
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good mom they learn how to be a good
21:59
goat that way they understand what’s
22:01
expected in the herd there’s a hierarchy
22:03
in the herd and if that goat is not
22:06
adopted by the mother then it has no
22:08
place in the herd and and the mother
22:10
protects it from the other absolutely in
22:12
some kind know and they’ll push and
22:16
pinch and bite and and my goats are
22:18
pretty good I have one that can be
22:20
somewhat harsh but she’s very protective
22:22
mom she she runs everywhere the baby
22:25
runs and waits just like you know a
22:27
helicopter mom kind
22:28
thing but anyway when that kid is born
22:31
she’s gonna clean it she’s gonna make
22:34
sure that everything is great for that
22:36
baby and the more that baby calls to her
22:38
then the more milk she’s gonna let down
22:41
and that’s really important because we
22:43
need her to have the colostrum so that
22:45
that baby gets a natural immunity and
22:48
she’s either gonna like that kid or
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she’s not and we hope that she’s gonna
22:52
like the kid and then she’s gonna take
22:55
care of that kid all of its life I have
22:57
goats that are for generations and they
22:59
still all sleep together not when they
23:02
have kids when they’ve got little kids
23:03
they’ll separate out but then as that
23:05
kid gets a little older everybody will
23:07
sleep together and then after the kid is
23:11
born I leave everybody together for at
23:14
least a week the mama and the baby and
23:17
then I put the kids all together in one
23:19
space so they get to be a club and then
23:22
that way when something’s wrong they
23:24
will sometimes sleep with each other or
23:27
they play with each other and that way
23:29
they have more than just their mom as
23:31
their backup and it’s really fun and
23:34
sweet and cute and adorable and they
23:38
sniff my hair and I love all of that but
23:41
I do get myself in quite a snit as far
23:43
as when it’s all going to happen right
23:45
well and speaking of you because you’re
23:47
you’re worried you’re worried about all
23:49
of the potential problems what are some
23:51
of the potential problems you know in
23:54
birth and then immediately after well
23:57
some of them could be the lack of
23:59
selenium they also can have a lot of
24:02
problems their blood sugar can go down
24:05
or they can have ketosis which is they
24:07
don’t have a good enough that can happen
24:09
also before there are a lot of things
24:12
that can happen that go wrong and it’s
24:14
all mostly around nutrition so I have
24:16
blackstrap molasses and I make a nice
24:19
warm water pail for them with the
24:21
molasses when they’re in labor so
24:23
they’ve got good blood sugar and a lot
24:26
of iron going through their system the
24:29
baby can be dead there are so many
24:32
things you can’t I couldn’t possibly go
24:34
into all of it but the one thing that
24:36
I’m going for the whole time is to have
24:39
the mom be healthy the baby be healthy
24:41
and
24:42
everybody get along and then come back
24:44
into the herd together well this year a
24:46
big issue was was the weather yeah I
24:49
mean they always seem to want to give
24:51
birth right at like the worst well when
24:53
the weather changes they often will or
24:55
when the moon is full but so frostbite
24:58
in winter that’s a tough one and and we
25:00
had some bad experiences with that I’ve
25:03
had really great success with bee
25:05
propolis and raw honey mix together
25:07
putting on ears to bring the ear back
25:11
this year I wasn’t so lucky and so I
25:13
have two kids that have are going to
25:15
lose the tips of their ears but they
25:17
could have lost the whole ear I’ve seen
25:19
goats online that lost their noses their
25:21
feet they’re they’re dead and this is
25:25
because they’re born they’re wet they’re
25:28
wet and whatever is dangling from that
25:30
body is going to is going to get frozen
25:33
in so we did have a kid that was born at
25:35
five below zero and and she hit her and
25:37
I was not a good goat herder that day
25:40
I’m sorry to say I take complete
25:42
responsibility and I’m very sad about it
25:45
well you’ll be hearing from that goats
25:46
lawyer no doubt the goat police okay so
25:50
as we were saying before this is this is
25:52
a fantasy type animal for the for the
25:55
homesteader so if you were gonna I know
25:58
you get a lot of messages a lot of
25:59
contact from people who are wanting to
26:01
raise goats how would you how would you
26:04
advise somebody about getting into this
26:07
alright well the first thing you do is
26:09
go to the library and read some books
26:11
about goat herding and then you buy my
26:13
book the business of goat range that I
26:16
wrote with Kerry Kerry Starr the
26:18
business of goat herding it’s very good
26:20
and it’s very simple and it doesn’t
26:22
burrow down too deeply into any one
26:25
topic but it will help you get started
26:26
and then go to go college or go to spend
26:31
some time with some goat herders and do
26:33
it at different times of the year and
26:35
learn what you can learn to trim hooves
26:37
learn how to milk learn how to make some
26:41
cheeses that are simple from the milk
26:43
and don’t get goats until you have
26:47
learned the basics because you will end
26:49
up miserable and sad and even the best
26:52
of us that try the hardest we can get up
26:55
in the
26:55
the night have a birthing room
26:57
everything you’re going to have
26:58
something go wrong you need to have
27:00
allies you need to have friends that can
27:02
help you when something happens is there
27:06
a way that someone can practice I mean
27:08
like sometimes people go to the dog
27:10
pound and play well you can buy yourself
27:12
you could you could buy a couple of
27:15
Weathers which are goats that have been
27:18
castrated males that have been castrated
27:19
and I do suggest that if you’ve never
27:22
had livestock or you’ve never had goats
27:24
the first season gets at a couple of
27:27
weathers they can chew on all your
27:29
brambles and your poison ivy and
27:31
everything and you’ll get to understand
27:33
their nutrition levels their personality
27:35
levels and they’ll be just like having
27:37
dogs and then after that you can make
27:40
all the mistakes on them and then you
27:42
graduate to the next level and hopefully
27:44
make less mistakes okay well you have
27:47
been listening to when the biomass it’s
27:49
the wind turbine with Jay & Annie Warmke we
27:52
want to thank our emmy award-winning
27:54
producer Adam rich yes we do hiding
27:57
behind the glass over there yeah and we
27:59
want to thank you for spending just a
28:01
little bit of time with us and as your
28:03
grandmother probably told you the secret
28:05
to a happy and sustainable life is play
28:07
nice with others change yes and clean up
28:11
your own mess J and don’t forget to eat
28:14
your vegetables just like the goats to
28:17
tell me
28:45
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28:51
you can find more information on living
28:54
sustainably in our unsustainable world
28:56
at Blue Rock station calm
28:59
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29:02
you
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