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[Music]
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[Music]
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welcome to this edition of what the
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biomass it’s the wind turbine a
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discussion of sustainable living and
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what that means to you and me I’m Jay Warmke
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and I’m Annie Warmke and today
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we’re going to talk about net living a
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Net Zero lifestyle or nothing from
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nothing leaves something Thank You Billy
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Preston so and you’re not gonna sing I’m
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not gonna sing no not this time
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all right all right so Annie we’re
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talking about oh speaking of Net Zero my
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singing define what is Net Zero what do
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you mean right now it’s a buzz word it’s
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a series of buzz words and I think it’s
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like the latest you know jazzy sexy
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whatever we call it living sustainably
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and designing sustainably and so forth
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so but the the true definition there are
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four possible components sorry for
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shuffling my papers so much but I have
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to read from my papers so Net Zero and
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they call it energy so we call it
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lifestyle because the reality is it’s
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never just about energy so there’s some
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different different different does
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definition definitions thank you for
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speaking English with me and so one is
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energy generated equals okay we’ll see
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let’s back up just a little bit
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all right Net Zero presumably is
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referencing something right you’re using
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okay you’re saying we’re saying that
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it’s all about our lifestyle so we not
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just carbon but everything that we
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produce I think that’s where the term
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comes from okay well I’m not the
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scientist and I really don’t care I what
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I do care about is the fact that it’s
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got a new jazzy sexy name for the market
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that’s right and so the engineers have
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grabbed on to this one and they’re
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pretty excited about it
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so what what I’m going to talk about is
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the fact that not just energy but
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everything we do should equal the sum of
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0 meaning we’re not taking away from the
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future so but just for the purpose of
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definition
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for this scientist because you’ve
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written it down on your literal thinkers
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I’m not one of those is that energy
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generated equals or exceeds the energy
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used when the energy is accounted for at
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a site so right where the building is or
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whatever or primary energy source used
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to deliver the energy at the site uses
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the site to sort – source
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conversion factors so that’s a bunch of
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hooey words that basically says it’s
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still supposed to want the energy that’s
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generated needs to be the general it’s
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used and so it all comes back to that B
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and all of the all of the Forge
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definitions that are possible come back
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to that one idea of what they call zev
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that net zero energy building all right
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so basically what you’re saying is most
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people are going to define it as the
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energy that you use in a building or in
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a structure is equal to or less than the
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amount of energy that structure or
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building generates for itself and
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secondly you’re saying that’s a bad
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definition because we want to expand
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that beyond just energy it needs to go
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beyond into what we say is life keeping
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your focus keeping you going down all
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right that’s why you ask questions
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that’s why I’m there’s an answer so so
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really what what we start with if we’re
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gonna look at this as Net Zero is
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everything begins with design and the
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design begins with the site so if we
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don’t really know what the site is about
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we mean to find that out before we know
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anything about what’s going to get
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designed to be presumably you’re talking
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about a building site here right well so
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buildings for homes or buildings for
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businesses and and the the one thing
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that this would incorporate is the idea
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of could this site be used for some
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other higher purpose I mean maybe it’s
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farmland and maybe it needs to still be
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farmland maybe it’s a wetland and maybe
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it’s it opted it absolutely should stay
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we’ll be a wetland so what is that site
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its highest best purpose so we wouldn’t
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necessarily go into nature and wipe out
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the nature that exists there like mowing
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down a forest just to build some some
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building that could be another building
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could be reused or repurposed somewhere
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else so it requires a very different way
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of thinking from the very beginning it’s
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not about how much money are we going to
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make it’s about how we start with what’s
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best for the environment and the people
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that live in that environment and you
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just you’ve just like wiped out 300
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years of American history here so
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basically what you’re saying is this a
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very different way of approaching
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development but it’s also a way to
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really make money because if we’re
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considering everything that’s in that
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environment things are going to be
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healthier they’re gonna last longer
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they’re gonna contribute better back to
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society and the environment so we’re
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saying start with that land and then how
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do we design something that contributes
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to a lifestyle versus just keeps us warm
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or keeps us cool or keeps us out of the
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rain we need to have a lot more basic
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requirements beyond that so we need to
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look at things like in terms of the
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design we want to consider a lot of
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different things so we want to consider
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how we use thermal mass we want to
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consider how we use passive solar and I
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can talk about that in a minute what
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those things mean we want to top we want
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to look at what that environment is as
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far as landscaping and how that
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incorporates the ability to raise food
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and compost and deal with other kinds of
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waste how does it deal with water terms
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of getting water to be able to use it
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and also water that has to runoff from
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it and also again the materials that
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we’re going to use or repurpose and
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maybe even rent materials that would
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live in the building and then at the end
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of that life of that building it would
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be deconstructed ok so if I if I back
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you up a little bit there you’re saying
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that
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any building doesn’t matter what it is
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whether it’s a convenience store or your
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home or whatever before you begin to
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construct something you should not only
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look at where you’re putting it how it
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fits in the environment that you’re
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placing it so how does it fit within the
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landscape within the neighborhood and
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then how its oriented and how you design
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the structures to take advantage of
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natural cycles and systems that might
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exist there at that property right so
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we’re not trying to make nature bend to
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us we’re utilizing the nature of the
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environment and the birds and the bees
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and everything the beards I don’t know I
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can’t talk today that well maybe the
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beards you don’t know you know a lot of
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white guys with beards but yeah if the
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shoe fits wear it all right we won’t go
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down that cul-de-sac all right so we’re
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trying to optimize the land use we’re
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trying to make this building in harmony
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in in harmony with its environment which
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basically doesn’t mean never build
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anything you know we’re not gonna be
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ready and frolicking through the
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woodland but you’re saying all right
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let’s put some thought into this because
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so often in modern so far it was so
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called in quotes development somebody
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comes in with a track hoe they blow down
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whatever happens to be there they stick
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up some building that you know it’s not
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going to be there for more than five or
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six years and then they’re just gonna
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repeat that process all over and
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somebody’s got to knock it down and with
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no thought whatsoever of how this
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building fits within the environment
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that’s pretty much the case because it’s
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all based on tax revenue and tax
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abatements and all that kind of stuff
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and so what I’m saying is it should not
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be based on that it should come back to
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how the long term of this building
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benefits that site and the use of the
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land
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okay so we’ve we’ve decided to optimize
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we know what we’re going to be building
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here now we’re gonna say all right how
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what kind of materials how are we going
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to deal with you mentioned thermal mass
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you mentioned passive solar
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harvesting composting how we’re yeah I
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mean we do that in our place of BlueRock
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station but if you’re running a 7-eleven
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convenience store somewhere if they
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still exist how are you gonna integrate
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thermal mass passive solar things like
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that in in a more middle-class suburban
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setting well before I answer that one of
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the things that has occurred to me is
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that this also applies to buildings that
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currently exist so we’re always making
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decisions about what gets torn down and
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what gets left behind and if we like
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something or don’t like something and so
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I think we have to consider if there’s a
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neighborhood where they’re going to tear
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down some buildings you know if those
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buildings are oriented to the proper
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direction and have the ability to be
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retrofitted so that they could
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incorporate some of the things you just
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mentioned perhaps that would be a time
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we might reconsider that that’s the best
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highest use of that land we need the
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buildings to be oriented to the south
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and perhaps a little to the east
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assuming you’re in the northern
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hemisphere sitting on the globe but in
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this area in in North America that’s
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where we would think and why are you
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facing themself well because we want to
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capture the warmth in the morning when
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it’s cold out and the Sun is low in the
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horizon and then we want to be able to
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help heat the building with that
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capturing of that Sun because just like
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your car in the parking lot I was trying
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to lead you down the path of saying that
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in the northern hemisphere the Sun is
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usually in the southern portion of the
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sky okay I’m sorry
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this is something that I think we all
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learn ok the wind is great the witness
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can proceed right thank you I’m on trial
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so so the Sun is in comes from the east
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in the morning and so we want to orient
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the building so it captures that first
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Sun as much as possible and then during
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the course of the day it captures the
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Sun from the south and perhaps even if
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we’re lucky some in the West and that
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helps us a lot when it’s cold
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outside and especially if we live in an
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area where there is sunshine in the
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winter and you’re describing passive
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solar base that’s exactly right and
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that’s one of my pet peeves is how come
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every building faces the street like
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that’s the interesting important thing
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well it’s about making money and it’s
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definitely not about making using the
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land right but the signage the signage
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can face the street the building doesn’t
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have to you know when you’re talking
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about commercial so why not orient the
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building to take advantage of free
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energy well first of all I don’t think
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until recently architects actually
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studied or thought about those engineers
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did not either so we’re at an exciting
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time in development when we use terms
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like Net Zero lifestyle because we’re
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beginning to say look we don’t have
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enough resources to keep doing the way
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things the way we’ve been doing them and
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with the crazy
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global weirding that we’re experiencing
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these kinds of buildings that we’re
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beginning to talk about and think about
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actually help us to control the
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environment so that if the electric grid
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goes down or we don’t have the money for
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the gas for the the furnace or other
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problems exists where there’s tremendous
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variances in temperature the environment
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inside the buildings where humans work
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and live can be controlled in a more
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efficient and effective way and put a
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lot less stress on the environment so
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then from a Net Zero lifestyle
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standpoint and we’re still sort of
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talking about construction you you look
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at it and you say okay the energy that
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we’re going to use here we want to
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create here as much as possible but it
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goes beyond energy it goes into the
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water you know not only the water that
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we use but the water that runs off we
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need to deal with that that gets into
13:06
water systems and sewer systems and
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things like that and then you start to
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get into the materials that you’re using
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in the building and well let’s just back
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up for a second though because the first
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thing we have to do is we have to create
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a building that incorporates passive
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solar which we’ve just been talking
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about but also thermal mass because we
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want the basic tenant of that building
13:30
and how it functions to
13:31
be able to hold a steady temperature
13:34
that does not go below the cave effect
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temperature which in this region is
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about 55 degrees so it doesn’t matter
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you know like if you go into a cave in
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the summer it feels cool you go in the
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winter it feels warm but in fact it’s
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still about 55 degrees so if we’re
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always heating and cooling a building
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from that basic temperature then then we
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have a whole different ballgame when we
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begin to look at energy consumption okay
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and then what about water harvesting
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well the other thing is that we also
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have a lot of variants in water right
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now so lots of places are getting too
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much in lots of places they’re not
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getting enough and it’s creating a lot
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of problems so if we then go back to
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kind of the way our great-grandparents
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lived and we say we ought to be
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collecting water off the roof of the
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buildings and they call that the roof
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the footprint of the roof you know that
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changes a lot of things for the
14:30
government because of all the water
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runoff that a lot of that runoff is not
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leaving the the site it’s going into a
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storage area and that gives the building
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the ability to have its own water okay
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well you are listening to when the
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biomass hits the wind turbine with Jay
14:47
and Annie Warmke reminding you that it
14:50
is the end of the world as we know it oh
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and thank God thank God especially today
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and the end of traditional and I always
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like to put that in quotes because it’s
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kind of recent traditional building
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processes yeah well let’s just say a
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couple things about thermal mass okay
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well yes then because I just my favorite
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yeah okay but so kids are studying these
15:16
principles from the 4th through the 8th
15:18
grade in a lot of places and yet we
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don’t seem to still understand what that
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means and so to me thermal mass is
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really creating the ability to collect
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energy into like for example when you
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build a building with tires as the basic
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wall that are rammed full of clay that
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clay has the ability when the Sun hits
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the wall
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to collect the energy and hold it there
15:47
and then to radiate it back into the
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building over the period of time equal
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to when it was getting when the wall was
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getting hit by the Sun so if the Sun is
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hitting that wall for four hours then
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it’s going to take another four hours
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for that heat to dissipate and go back
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down to the 55 degree temperature so we
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need to be building buildings that have
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the ability to create to use thermal
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mass and that’s could be water it could
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be clay yeah it’s gonna say when I was
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studying all of this stuff way back when
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not only does any material every
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material has the ability to absorb heat
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but then there’s a factor they refer to
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as the thermal lag which is then how
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long that energy will radiate back into
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a structure into a building and that’s
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something that architects don’t seem to
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study or take into account because as
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you mentioned water turns out to be like
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the best building material as I always
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like to say it’s hard to put a nail in
16:50
it but you know it’s it’s a good
16:52
building material and it will absorb a
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lot of heat very efficiently and then
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radiate it back at at a very long and
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steady process so I think to play
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devil’s advocate when you’re doing
17:05
construction most of the people who are
17:07
doing construction say all right how do
17:09
I get in get out in a hurry use the
17:12
cheapest materials I can use get this
17:14
thing construction constructed quickly
17:16
and maximize my profits with the
17:19
smallest amount of labour and you’re
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saying that is not the approach well we
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can’t keep going that way and that’s
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where the thankgod part it comes in when
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we say it’s the end of the world as we
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know it because we first of all we have
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plenty of buildings for people to live
17:35
in and have businesses in but we don’t
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come from a place of retrofitting or
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repurposing those buildings we come from
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the position of it’s it’s utilized its
17:46
tax life as it as it right off and so
17:48
we’ve depreciated it out now we can tear
17:51
it down or sell it to somebody else or
17:53
move on or whatever so we we have to
17:56
move on from that way of thinking about
17:57
it
17:58
we then come back to how do we take the
18:00
buildings that currently exist and stop
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thinking that we’re going to build
18:03
called Asaf buildings where they’re
18:07
cookie-cutter they all look the same
18:09
I’m shocked sometimes when I go to new
18:11
places and I see that every house looks
18:14
the same in fact it might even be some
18:16
variation of a tan color so they’re all
18:20
tan but one’s lighter one’s darker and
18:22
this is shocking to me because that’s
18:24
exactly the opposite of where we need to
18:26
be so we should not be in can the
18:28
construction mode of every building is
18:31
just you know on a street and we go from
18:33
one building to the next to install the
18:35
heater and install the drywall and
18:38
install whatever it’s not the way we can
18:42
continue to think about okay so we have
18:44
to get out of this assembly line mindset
18:47
of life and let me let me move beyond
18:49
building because I think we’ve we’ve
18:50
kind of beat on that to the point where
18:52
we’re going to but then you talk about
18:54
some broader concepts like in a NetZero
18:57
lifestyle does I mean even at the very
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basic level does everybody need to own a
19:02
home does everybody think not does
19:05
everybody need a kitchen you know right
19:07
these are things that we’re kind of
19:09
talking about private ownership which is
19:12
the American dream by God and what about
19:14
shared you know what did you learn –
19:16
well humans don’t share well you know I
19:18
have come to the conclusion in life
19:22
after studying this quite a lot as
19:24
somebody who has a background in
19:26
counseling that for the most part we
19:29
start out being very greedy and
19:31
hedonistic very selfish and that’s how
19:34
we learn to walk and get what we need
19:36
and diapers changed and you know food
19:38
and all that stuff but for lots of us a
19:41
vast majority of us we never kind of get
19:44
beyond that way of thinking about life
19:46
and so we have a hard time interacting
19:49
with other people and I think it’s
19:50
getting a lot worse because we have less
19:53
experiences less broad-based experiences
19:55
so I think one of the challenges is that
19:58
first of all we need to think about
20:00
buildings being smaller that’s sort of
20:04
what you’re talking about and then
20:05
saying well what can we share could we
20:08
have a shared kitchen so maybe there are
20:10
a number of
20:11
what they would call tiny houses and
20:13
these are not things on wheels that’s
20:14
just a fad but small homes that that
20:18
have a lot of outdoor living space so
20:20
that you have places to go walking or
20:23
that you have a place to have a barbecue
20:24
and that there is a barbecue
20:27
there isn’t one barbecue for the six
20:29
homes that surround that kitchen so your
20:32
sleeping space and your your basic
20:36
living is in a building but then you
20:39
would share other kinds of spaces that
20:41
would be called common I guess yeah I
20:44
always think of like at the dormitory
20:45
kind of idea you have your private space
20:48
but but then their shared entertainment
20:52
spaces shared kitchen spaces things of
20:55
that nature and we don’t have to sort of
20:58
take that dormitory idea that you’re
20:59
sharing it with a whole bunch of
21:01
strangers or near strangers it can be
21:03
smaller families I mean if we just said
21:07
look we a lot of people have very close
21:09
families several generations and they
21:12
want to be together they are together a
21:14
lot they just don’t live in the same
21:16
building so if we just came from that
21:19
position where maybe there’s older you
21:23
know the parents are older or aunts and
21:25
uncles or cousins or whatever and then
21:27
there were the younger generations and
21:29
each one had their own small building
21:32
and then they all shared a cooking
21:33
facility that to me seems like about the
21:36
only situation that could guarantee to
21:38
work at some level because everybody’s
21:41
got a different way of doing things and
21:43
some people are cleaner than others so
21:45
then everybody gets mad because you
21:46
didn’t scrub this or whatever but if we
21:49
just said let’s focus on families and
21:51
how to work among families to create
21:53
these situations that wouldn’t have that
21:55
would have a huge impact well and we
21:57
hear a lot you know intentional
21:59
communities or even as people age the
22:02
nursing home idea is is abhorrent to
22:05
many people so why not shared living
22:07
facilities where you depend upon each
22:09
other your friends your relatives maybe
22:11
or or people you’ve known or people that
22:14
you’re getting to know over the years so
22:15
I think what we what we’re always coming
22:18
back to is the the idea of why do we do
22:21
things the way we do them why do we feel
22:23
that a single fan
22:24
home for a nuclear family that has all
22:28
of the things you know duplicated in the
22:32
little cul-de-sac I mean why is that our
22:35
ideals about consumption it is totally
22:38
about consumption because it’s the rich
22:42
you’re only going to buy one of
22:44
something and so if everybody is buying
22:47
one of something you know poor people
22:49
buy lots more stuff than rich people do
22:51
the rich people just pay more for it so
22:54
it’s all about consumption and we have
22:57
to move away from that model and it’s
22:59
the same way when we’re talking about
23:01
Net Zero lifestyle is that we need to
23:04
have places and learn how we can grow
23:07
food for ourselves because the food that
23:10
is available to us for the most part
23:13
especially for people who don’t have the
23:15
money to go to or have access to a
23:17
farmers market or a local farm or
23:21
neighbor neighbors who might grow food
23:24
and share their food is that we’re
23:25
eating food that nobody not even our
23:28
livestock should be consuming and this
23:30
is becoming more and more and more
23:32
evident so we we need to have buildings
23:36
that enable us to grow nutritious
23:39
healthy food for our families and for
23:42
ourselves but even that growing process
23:44
should be from a NetZero standpoint
23:47
instead of bringing in petroleum
23:49
products to you know augment the soil
23:53
and and kill pests you know use the
23:56
things that are produced on that
23:58
location to embellish the soil it’s that
24:01
cycle of if creating and composting and
24:05
then reusing and creating and composting
24:07
and reusing I mean this is this is the
24:09
way we’re really going back to a
24:12
pre-world War two lifestyle but with
24:15
computers well and the challenge is that
24:18
really our kids are not learning any of
24:20
this we just had some visitors this week
24:22
who obviously have very intelligent
24:26
parents and and they and they have been
24:30
studying a lot of the things that we do
24:32
at Blue Rock station and they were very
24:34
excited to be there the kids they’re all
24:36
teenagers
24:38
and once they were there they were
24:39
completely lost and intimidated and just
24:44
waited to be shown just where to step
24:47
and all that kind of man settled into
24:49
looking at their phones I don’t know
24:51
where they yes but they and they also
24:54
informed me when I wanted to I we feed
24:58
everybody at blue rock station and so we
25:01
were going to have some chili I had made
25:03
with some new potatoes and they looked
25:06
up in horror because they said they
25:08
didn’t eat potatoes and I said wait a
25:10
minute I’ve never met anybody who
25:12
doesn’t like potatoes and then the
25:13
mother said well they eat french fries
25:16
from McDonald’s so I said oh there’s
25:19
they’re close to potatoes
25:21
yeah so all right so we’re talking about
25:23
food we’re talking about building some
25:25
transportation I mean some of these
25:27
things are evolving but I I think of
25:30
uber and those kind of services as a non
25:33
ownership right what transportation is
25:36
going to lead the way that’s for sure
25:37
and it’s already doing it with things
25:39
like uber and more systems that are
25:42
going into place for people and why do
25:44
you think that is leading the way
25:46
because it’s expensive okay two reasons
25:49
one is people don’t earn enough to
25:51
afford to have an apartment and a
25:53
vehicle and the vehicles are very very
25:57
expensive you’re in an urban environment
25:59
parking the vehicle getting insurance
26:01
absolutely and the energy that goes in
26:06
to those vehicles is very volatile one
26:08
day it costs a dollar ninety-nine the
26:10
next day it might cost 399 and
26:12
eventually I hope it’s gonna cost 1099
26:16
so I think using the uber example we’re
26:18
saying okay you can transition from this
26:20
quote-unquote traditional process to
26:24
something that’s more shared and
26:25
actually find the advantages and there
26:28
is an opportunity for businesses to make
26:30
money well that’s right and it’s the
26:31
same way it’s a little bit without
26:33
started out happening with Airbnb which
26:36
was people were and also couchsurfing
26:40
where people are sharing an extra room
26:42
or sharing an extra bed and couch
26:45
surfing has been hugely popular Airbnb
26:48
has been hugely popular although I see
26:51
Arabi
26:52
be as being more upscale but definitely
26:55
couchsurfing and you get to know people
26:58
you get to know the area it’s a whole
27:00
different experience so I think we’ll
27:02
see a lot more of those kind of things
27:04
and they’re definitely setting trends
27:06
that are going to educate us and lead us
27:08
further down the pike towards this Net
27:10
Zero lifestyle okay well we’ve got about
27:12
a minute left and if you could maybe
27:14
just rant a little bit about the idea of
27:16
oh never mind
27:19
fine lessons planned obsolesce yeah yeah
27:22
yeah because because part of how this
27:24
whole system that we live under is
27:26
evolved is not only do we have throwaway
27:28
homes and throwaway cars we have
27:29
throwaway everything’s right well we
27:32
think we throw away lots of things
27:34
because they’re designed to break within
27:35
six months and I’m not exaggerating you
27:38
can look up the term planned
27:39
obsolescence you there are lots of
27:42
things you know YouTube and on online
27:44
about all kinds of ways that we are
27:47
forced to be consumers so essentially
27:50
we’re saying that the Net Zero lifestyle
27:52
isn’t going to be a difficult transition
27:55
but it is a transition nonetheless that
27:58
must take eggs thought it takes a lot of
28:00
thought well I find that very difficult
28:02
so I think I’ve noticed that you are
28:04
listening to when the biomass it’s the
28:07
wind turbine with Jay and Annie Warmke
28:09
we want to thank our producer Adam Rich
28:12
who wins Emmys so we don’t have to and
28:14
we would like to thank you for spending
28:19
just a little bit of time with us and as
28:20
your grandmother
28:21
hopefully told you the secret to a happy
28:23
and sustainable life is play nice with
28:26
others clean up your mess and Jay will
28:29
you please eat your vegetables system
28:31
till next time
28:55
[Music]
29:05
you can find more information on living
29:07
sustainably in our unsustainable world
29:10
at Blue Rock station calm
29:17
[Music]