The text is auto generated, so sorry if there are some odd translations…
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welcome to this edition of when the
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biomass hits the wind turbine a
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discussion of sustainable living and
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what that means to you and me I’m Jay
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Warmke I’m Annie Warmke you are and
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today we’re gonna talk about some
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regulations surrounding sustainability
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issues or you’ve got to understand the
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rules before you can break them right
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you know I say that on every tour I
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learned it early on in my career as an
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activist and that has served me well but
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it really served me well building
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ownership and trying to deal with lots
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of different kinds of people mm-hmm well
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one of the issues and I think this goes
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beyond sustainability goes almost to
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every aspect in our lives but it seems
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like the system is set up to make
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whatever you do wrong you know I mean it
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may be it’s just no I feel like
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everything I’m doing I could get
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arrested for at any moment well the
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first problem was you married me no so
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that that was your first active
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revolution but they haven’t they haven’t
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come for me in the little no but I don’t
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think it’s paranoia I think the reality
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is that there are lots of rules set up
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that’s part of bureaucracy and we are a
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bureaucracy and people have to remain
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employed within that bureaucracy and so
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that’s why we have to understand what
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are the rules and then we have to decide
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if what we want to do is important
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enough to try to figure out how to get
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past those rules or bend the rules or
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break the rules well when you mentioned
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a bureaucracy I always think about in
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bureaucracies every single rule makes
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perfect sense but when you put them all
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together it’s complete absurdity you
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know I think that’s a fairly broad
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statement I don’t know complete it’s my
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philosophy of life okay every statement
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makes perfect sense but in combination
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they’re absurd okay all right so let’s
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talk a little bit we’ll start with
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shelter because you know when we talk
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about the things you need to live and
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sustainability is all about living you
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know you’ve got shelter you’ve got food
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we have already we have a whole episode
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the food issues but you know then
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there’s also water energy some of these
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others that we’ll touch on but let’s
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talk about shelter first because because
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one of the things that’s very popular at
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the moment is the whole idea of tiny
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houses and tiny houses almost from the
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beginning of their concept have been
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going against rules you know these rules
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come down and they say okay you’re not
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allowed to build a house smaller than X
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in some places it’s 700 square feet
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other places maybe 400 other places 900
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but these laws covenants building
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restrictions whatever you want to call
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them come in and say okay you want to
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build a tiny house well already we’re
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gonna make that against the law so so
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that’s an issue yet so so what people
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have done to get around that is they’ve
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said alright I’m gonna put wheels on
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this thing and I’m going to call it like
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a mobile home and then they come through
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and say okay that’s fine but you’re not
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allowed to live in mobile homes you know
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you’re not allowed to live in trailers
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RVs whatever it is you want to call them
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so it strikes me that that it’s it’s
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like one rule after another that’s just
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designed to make this concept of living
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minimalistic alee illegal well I think I
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really don’t know that that’s the case I
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think it’s an issue of that people worry
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about people like us and we’re not as
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well they sure that’s right because we
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are not exactly the people that are
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going to go along and and live like
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other folks we’ve tried it and it didn’t
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work for us
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but I think it’s more than just about
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tiny houses it’s as we grow into an age
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of renewables which is where we’re going
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right now and and there’s not going to
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be any stopping it the real challenges
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are about zoning and how it applies to
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reusing materials so for example it’s
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not just about tiny houses on wheels
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there’s always been bigotry around poor
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people and rules that we’re going to
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keep poor people out and you know right
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but what I’m getting at is like those
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truck beds you know truck containers
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cargo containers so those are being used
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actually in the main part of London
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right they build an apartment complex
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there with those but again it’s going to
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come down to the fact that we have to
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read we have to read or deconstruct
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buildings and then we’re going to
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reconstruct buildings with some of those
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materials and right now zoning laws
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really are prohibitive you in doing any
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of that process whether it’s a tiny
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house or a cargo box or whatever so that
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these are the challenges the regulations
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that exist and they are unique to every
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practically every block of every
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neighbourhood township well we’ve run
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into that before where I’m one side of
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the street this particular practice is
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illegal on the other side of the street
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it’s encouraged you know it none of it
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makes logical sense as we said when you
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put them all in in tandem with each
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other it’s all kind of crazy but we were
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discussing this before about smaller
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houses and you were saying okay well if
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I lived in a suburban neighborhood I
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would prefer not to have these little
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tiny I would fight against it
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I mean I fight keeping them out yeah I
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would keep them out because that
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neighborhood is not set up and I would
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want it to be in front of your little
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you would mansion alone I’m I’m just
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saying that if I lived in a cul-de-sac
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neighborhood or a housing development
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neighborhood
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or any of the you know neighborhoods
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like in in a small town those
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neighborhoods are not set up for tiny
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houses and so if we really want to have
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a tiny house neighborhood or a tiny
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house village then we need to design it
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accordingly because it’s going to have
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different needs and reality is if we
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want to be minimalistic which is the
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premise of China houses we should be
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demonstrating that across the board and
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not asking the mainstream to comply to
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us and say well we’re going to move into
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the cul-de-sac area that has you know
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McMansions or $200,000
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or whatever and expect that we’re going
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to change things there if we really are
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doing this because we want to be
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minimalistic and we want to change how
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things are being done then we should be
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going out and finding ways to create
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these little communities so we can
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demonstrate how to share how to grow
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food together how to deal with waste
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together well and I think we’re in
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agreement on most of these issues nobody
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else but you know because because I went
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one of the things that just sort of gets
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my hackles up is with regulations with
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any kind of rules we come up with these
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rules it’s like a one-size-fits-all
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thing tiny houses are an example of this
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we don’t want small you know poor people
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basically it is always legislating
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against poor people we don’t want them
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coming back right so we say ok we will
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prohibit this from happening by
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restricting the size of the house when
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the reality is restricting the size of
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the house has no effect on those issues
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that perhaps are underlying it we want
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these things to comply with the feel of
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the neighborhood well a small house can
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do that as easily as a large house we
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want them not to be shabby rundown we
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want them not to be polluting we want
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them not to be well then they should be
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going after some of the houses that are
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already existing that’s my point is is
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restricting the size does nothing to
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address the underlying justification for
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restricting the size just like when we
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talk about you know prohibiting raw milk
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you know it really is unclean practices
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that you’re trying to deal with not raw
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versus pasteurized that’s just one
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solution that they came up with to try
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and address the underlying cause and
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then we get married to this solution so
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okay we’re all in agreement tiny house
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restrictions on the face of it is silly
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but that somebody trying to put some
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home that doesn’t fit in the
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neighborhood regardless of its size is
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maybe not good I mean they’re well these
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names if you look at neighbor
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that are really gentrifying right now
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which is happening all over areas in
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bigger cities they’re coming in and
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there are a lot of these neighborhoods
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where they built what they call GI Bill
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homes and that the government to provide
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for the veterans when they came back
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from World War two and housing was real
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limited because those guys had gone off
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to war and they were you know just out
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of high school and they came back and
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they were ready to go to college and
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have families and so there was nowhere
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to live so they built these little tiny
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story and a half houses and now this is
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a lot of the housing that’s available in
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these gentrified communities so they’re
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people are buying up two or three of
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those tearing them down and building
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huge houses right next to the little
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tiny G hi GI houses next door right and
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we could make the same argument that
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that doesn’t fit in the neighborhood so
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there should be no homes larger than
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2,000 square feet absolutely
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somehow I don’t think that’s gonna fly
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through City no no but that’s the way it
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works all right well let’s talk you know
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a little bit about these restrictions
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they’re usually through building codes
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or whatever and we get a lot of people
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out of BlueRock station who kind of have
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this idea of sticking it to the man I
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don’t want any rules governing my life
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I’m kind of one of them often but they
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wanna stick it to the man you care that
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much well I know but I want them to
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leave me alone how the most part but for
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the most part these rules are exist for
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a reason so so if you are talking about
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wanting to build art alternatively you
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should go and talk to these people for
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the most part I think they’re reasonable
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folks say what are your concerns how can
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i address these concerns and hopefully
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you can come to some sort of
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accommodation that would be the first
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step I’d also ask for it all in writing
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because sometimes these places that
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person’s been there since they got out
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of high school and sometimes they make
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their own rules and I want to see under
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the Revised Code of that state and that
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County and that trustee or Township I
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want to see in writing exactly what
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those codes are and then are there
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possibilities for exceptions where you
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could pay extra money and would go back
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to the state and they would consider if
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they were going to give you an exception
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for four different things like waste
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treatment or or ‘this size of the
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building or whatever and a lot of times
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they’re worried about you know everybody
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loves to say we’re setting a precedent
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and I always say well you set a
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precedence whenever you get up in the
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morning but doesn’t look at it that way
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I’ll give them an excuse you’re an
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experiment you know maybe you can get
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set up as an experimental in fact that
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was sort of the solution I recall
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Michael Reynolds did out in Taos you
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know as far as one of their developments
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they finally got an exception saying
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okay this is an experimental location
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where we’re gonna try these these
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techniques and this was around her ships
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right but that would be a very good
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example of how you because he didn’t
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start out like that he broke every rule
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and he didn’t care and he rubbed
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everybody’s face in it ended up losing
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its architectural license so in my
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school of thinking it’s like let’s go
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educate ourselves on what that local
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person who’s over the law says and let’s
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look at what the law in writing says and
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then let’s go back with a plan that
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tries to incorporate some of their
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wording into your project and things
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like what you’re saying is that maybe we
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have a project where we want to
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demonstrate a demonstration project that
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shows different ways that we’re going to
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use these things and then we can also
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show that it’s not a precedence we’re
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not doing something for the first time
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because that county over by New York
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State or whatever and so it’s on the
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borderline of Pennsylvania in New York
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and they are working together to do
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something similar so we want to show
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that they’re not setting a precedence
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maybe in that particular state they are
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but in other municipalities or other
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regions they aren’t so we want to play
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the game as best we can and if we really
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want to change things through the future
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this is what we’re gonna have to do
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right and nobody ever got fired for
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saying no you know all these regulators
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and the like you got to give them a gun
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you’re saying no couple of time this is
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not me – okay okay so anyway so we
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talked about these alternative building
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techniques and some of them that are
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alternative become fairly mainstream but
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this is not a new issue like straw bale
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for instance
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is is pretty well defined in the
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international no straw bales been around
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since the beginning of this country well
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one of my favorite things around
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alternative building is the the story of
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the cave dwellers of Pennsylvania you
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know when they came over during colonial
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times and actually found that it was
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much more comfortable to build into an
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embankment to hollow out a cave and then
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build a facade of a home over the front
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of that cave because of the thermal mass
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and it was quite comfortable and then
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William Penn apparently got teased when
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he got back home in England about his
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people were living in caves so he came
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back and made it illegal because it was
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not British enough you know so of course
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everybody had to freeze to death in
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these collaborators because the climate
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here was not the same as England so it’s
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just one example of regulations that are
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I think most most of times because
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people are being teased for you know all
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of these weird hippies wanting to come
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into the neighborhood and dance around
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maples and tie-dyed t-shirts or whatever
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I mean that’s their concern well one
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thing to consider too is that you have
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to have a building permit now not
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everybody requires that I know when we
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built our first building we did not have
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to have a building permit but you’re
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gonna want to know if that’s the case
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and how you have to display it and who
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and get to know the person that’s going
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to come and check you out you invite
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them for some coffee okay well you were
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listening to when the biomass it’s the
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wind turbine with Jay and Annie Warmke
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reminding you once again it is indeed
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the end of the world as we know it and
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thank God Jay thank God all right well
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today we’re talking about regulations
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around you know sustainable living and
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we’ve been hitting on shelter haven’t
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even talked about the silliness around
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lawns and and not allowed to have
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gardens in your front yard and and
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things like that you know it’s almost
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like the legislation oftentimes
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encourages and mandates practices that
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are actually harmful like laws you know
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I mean and and it really favors the
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esthetic over the the sustainable so
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let’s just take that as a truism
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and then let’s talk about water oh well
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what I was going to say those I think
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lawns are a very good example of how
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corporations have really been in control
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of at least local government for quite a
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long time because lawns are the the
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largest crop grown in the United States
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and the biggest polluter in the United
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States and yet they put it really
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produces nothing but something that has
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to be mowed off by law in most locations
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so lawns are really a frivolous crazy
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thing and I and I’m I think we brought
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that with us when we came here from
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other countries and it somehow makes it
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seem like we are rich or whatever right
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was it was originally an expression of
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wealth you know I am rich enough to have
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all this land that has no practical
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purpose other than no sheep grazing on
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it to be ornamental yeah so it’s really
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crazy and and it contributes greatly to
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lots of the ecological problems that we
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have but then there are laws against
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growing food
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yeah and growing gardens in your front
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yard or even maybe your backyard yeah
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what are you gonna do and also but
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there’s a growing movement around that
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and at some point they won’t be able to
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be stopped but people are also keeping
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rabbits and chickens and even goats in
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their yards and they’re doing that
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because they want to be able to
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determine the food quality that they’re
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ingesting with them themselves and their
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families okay well let’s let’s talk a
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little bit about water
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you know because water probably more so
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even than shelter is the stuff of life
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right so so when we you know when we
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have our tours of Blue Rock station and
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people will always be a little bit
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marveling at the idea that we’re
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drinking rainwater and we always go we
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say well where’s your water come from
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and say this guy and they’re like what
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way I can drink rainwater ends like well
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you’re drinking Mountain Dew I mean
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weird stuff but anyway so so the reality
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is in most parts of the nation not not
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all but most the rain is fairly clean I
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mean it’s a natural filtration process
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and yet our systems are designed well
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there’s two really weird parts of it
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that
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I think about first off why is drinking
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water and all other water treated as the
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same utility because you don’t need to
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have drinking water to flush your toilet
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I mean that’s that’s sort of it you mean
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drinking water quality yeah yeah yeah we
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filter this stuff we chemically treat it
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we bring it through we pump it for miles
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and miles and miles to put it in a
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toilet bowl and flush it and then it
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goes back miles and miles and miles I
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think it’s habitual because we started
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out drawing water from the sky to have
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inside of a building or we pumped it
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from the ground and perhaps it was just
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too complicated to figure out how you’re
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going to make that do two different
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things and and I will say that in the
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early days of house water people had a
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pump just for hand washing and face
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washing in their bathing and then they
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had separate water pump for everything
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else yeah well it’s part of Lee partly
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because leave a la government or we’ve
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encouraged government to take over the
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the management of our water systems
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everything crazy I mean I remember as a
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kid I mean there was always it was
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almost like Christmas you know the idea
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that they might bring city water out to
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our neighborhood you know cuz everybody
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had cisterns and everybody had septic
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tanks that was there where well with
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iron high level iron that was one but
19:29
but then the idea of city water boy
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oh boy and then city sewers oh my god I
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mean those taps were free because they
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wanted everybody did to tap into the
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line well and now we’re seeing the
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government’s not that good at
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maintaining these systems what do you
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mean not that good some places you risk
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your life to try out what so then wait
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okay so let’s say we want to be a little
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more sustainable about this we know we
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can harvest water I just want to say the
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government in some places doesn’t even
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care in the city of just Detroit they
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were more concerned about the GM factory
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having the right water because it was
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corroding the materials when they were
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building the the vehicles so they turned
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one switch and they gave GM factory
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clean water and everybody else four
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years in some
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months later is still dealing with the
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poisoned water I am shocked that you
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feel that our government caters to
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corporations over its okay so anyway
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great water disposal rainwater
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harvesting so we have these two options
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I’m gonna keep your keep you on target
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keep you on stay on target red leader so
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anyway so so we can harvest rainwater
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except some places don’t want you to you
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know there was well it’s it can be
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illegal I mean even to just bring it
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into rain barrels and using your garden
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can actually be yeah Colorado is
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notorious on that you know they did
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restrict the harvesting of rainwater
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that the claim was that it was a public
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utility that if you harvested rain you
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were basically stealing from the public
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utility which is strange and concept
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anyway the and then the science of
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course shows that almost none of the
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water that falls on your home finds its
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way back to the aquifer that is in fact
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drawn from for public consumption so it
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was a fallacious argument from the
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get-go but for whatever reason they
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decided to hold to it now they’ve
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they’ve loosened it up a bit to say okay
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now you can gather up to a hundred and
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ten gallons but you can only use it for
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gardening outdoors so that would be two
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55-gallon barrels yes well let me say
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that I think what we’re coming to is the
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fact that there at some point is going
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to be a critical mass of people who are
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going to be doing this differently and
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it’s going to change the rules whether
21:53
people like it or not whether the
21:55
government likes it or not well it gets
21:56
though that if you break in the rules if
21:58
everyone’s breaking the rule you know
22:00
that there’s not enough government
22:02
employees to come after you speaking of
22:04
medical marijuana right well the other
22:07
piece though is that it’s not a matter
22:10
of we should be doing this to live more
22:13
sustainably we we are going to have to
22:18
do this kind of thing where we collect
22:20
water and we harvest rainwater and we
22:23
have the ability to reuse that water or
22:27
so though
22:28
we’ve taken the shower we can also flush
22:30
the toilets with it it’s just the
22:33
reality and one of the government likes
22:35
it or not or corporations like it or not
22:37
this is where we’re going and the trains
22:39
picking up speed it’s going downhill and
22:42
it’s the way it’s gonna be well okay as
22:45
far as grey water disposal I think no
22:47
one would argue that you should not be
22:50
dumping you know toilet water out on
22:54
your lawn unless you happen to be
22:56
raising pigs and then you’re allowed to
22:59
oh I don’t think we want to do that I
23:01
know I know we don’t want to about it
23:02
but this gets to the point like up in
23:04
Minnesota when we were working on a
23:05
project and they restrict grey water
23:09
disposal they did not want so let’s say
23:12
water is just water that from when you
23:14
wash your hands or wash their dishes or
23:16
take a shower right pretty much
23:17
everything there’s no urine in it except
23:20
from your toilets yeah so shower water
23:22
laundry water and dishwater they
23:25
restricted that and their argument was
23:27
the trace amounts of fecal material
23:29
would find their way into this grey
23:31
water and be like it’s alive and
23:32
crawling along looking I guess but
23:34
anyway so my argument to them was do you
23:37
own a dog you know trace amounts of
23:39
faith I hate to break it to you but you
23:41
know what the world is full of poo even
23:43
even if you don’t have a dog other
23:45
people do and they let them but then at
23:48
this location across the street was
23:50
literally a 30 acre hog septic behind
23:57
yeah just 30 acres of open sewage but
24:00
you’re not allowed to drain a little
24:01
while this is where one rule doesn’t
24:03
understand what the other rule is doing
24:05
and none of them make any sense um so we
24:08
have those kind I want to point out
24:09
though that the difference is that that
24:12
pig farmer met with the inspector and
24:15
that inspector was able to tick off
24:17
every single box that was required and
24:20
the person who was spraying the gray
24:23
water onto their lawn which actually
24:25
gray water is quite good for plants
24:27
because it kills bugs and it adds
24:30
nutrients to the soil that guy didn’t
24:33
have an inspector who came with a list
24:35
and so therefore he was breaking the law
24:37
and that’s really what it comes down to
24:39
Jay yes okay
24:40
well if that is the law as Shakespeare
24:43
said right then the lawyer well no all
24:48
right so let’s talk the composting is
24:50
another issue something that everybody
24:52
looks at with sustainability and there
24:54
are literally laws around how you can
24:56
compost stuff which is kind of well
24:59
there should be because if you’re just
25:00
throwing it out in your backyard you’re
25:01
gonna attract a whole lot of things you
25:03
don’t really want well the average home
25:05
apparently according to statistics I
25:07
looked this up 474 pounds of organic
25:11
waste of compostable waste for food
25:15
scraps just every year or a week every
25:17
year per person so so that’s a lot of
25:20
stuff and and for the most part when I
25:24
did look into these composting
25:26
regulations they seemed pretty
25:27
reasonable things like you should be set
25:30
back from the property line like three
25:32
to ten feet
25:34
there were height restrictions of the
25:36
composting you didn’t want it to topple
25:40
over and kill somebody you know buried
25:42
under a pile of you know something let’s
25:47
just say tomato rinds
25:49
no thank you so so anyway so some of
25:54
those seem dumb and and then something
25:57
that just came up in our own lives here
25:59
just recently which got me thinking of
26:01
the silliness of restrictions but
26:03
burning you know burning lawn waste
26:06
things like that
26:08
I know burning anything in concentration
26:12
people have lost hotels people burning
26:15
so the restrictions are such that it’s
26:18
like anyone who has ever burned anything
26:23
in their backyard is violating the law
26:25
well I don’t get it because it says you
26:27
can’t burn it at night daytime and but
26:32
you can burn at night I’m thinking but
26:34
at night you can’t see right and the
26:36
months that they restrict it at least in
26:38
our area are actually the wet months
26:40
where you know at the very little risk
26:43
of the fire going beyond okay so so we
26:47
want it to you in charge of it and then
26:50
then there are too many stories to tell
26:52
with the time we have
26:53
the burning yard wastes these
26:54
restrictions are well intended for you
26:57
and right the Jay bill or something yes
27:01
somebody was watching me all right so um
27:04
then then we get into some energy like
27:06
again the the big ones with solar and
27:09
wind restrictions that exists there we
27:12
see wind especially as in the news again
27:14
because our beloved president decided
27:18
that when to causes cancer or whatever
27:20
and so there’s there’s restrictions
27:23
where they setback restrictions tower
27:26
Heights restrictions noise restrictions
27:28
all of these things are typically
27:32
intended to to inhibit the development
27:35
of wind and and they do this where they
27:40
don’t do it for other things like
27:42
cellular towers things of that nature
27:44
solar is another one that’s that’s kind
27:47
of annoying in that often they restrict
27:50
the ability for people to put it you
27:53
know on the front of their homes where
27:55
it’s visible from a neighbor or like if
27:57
you want to park your car under it if
27:59
it’s visible from the front you can’t do
28:00
that and you saw that in France where
28:04
yeah where the church doesn’t approve of
28:06
it okay well I think we put that one to
28:10
bed you have been listening to win the
28:13
biomass it’s the wind turbine with Jay
28:14
and Annie Warmke we want to thank our
28:16
producer Adam Rich and we want to thank
28:19
you for spending just a little bit of
28:21
time with us and as your grandmother
28:23
hopefully told you without restriction
28:25
by nice with others clean up your own
28:28
mess today and for heaven’s sake eat
28:30
those vegetables Ollie till next month
28:56
[Music]
29:06
you can find more information on living
29:09
sustainably in our unsustainable world
29:11
at Blue Rock station calm
29:17
you
29:18
[Music]