The text is auto generated, so sorry if there are some odd translations…
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[Music]
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[Music]
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welcome to this edition of when the
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biomass it’s the wind turbine a
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discussion of sustainable living and
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what that means to you I’m Jay Warmke
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and I’m Annie Warmke and today we’re
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gonna talk about heading towards zero
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waste or man is this place a mess no
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it’s not a question it’s a statement
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I knew that okay you ask it like
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question we’re gonna start that way it’s
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that valley girl tone of my voice that
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every station question okay so so let’s
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start what are we talking about we’re
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talking about the problem right here
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we’re really talking about solid waste
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and solid waste we’re talking that in
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the United Way what solid waste someone
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waste is stuff right stuff you throw
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away in poop it’s but it’s no I would
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not consider that as part of the solid
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waste stream so anyway so 250 million
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tons per year which is four point six
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pounds per person per day that’s a lot
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of stuff yeah that’s like five pounds of
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potatoes that’s the think about it okay
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normally you would buy a bag you know a
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small bag of potatoes would be five
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pounds that’s how much it seems like
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people who generate would generate more
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than that I mean when I think about all
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those this is happening we generate
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quite not very much and that’s averaging
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out to those people to generate quite a
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lot so some of the studies that we’ve
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had like a Minnesota study shows that of
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this solid waste the stuff that ends up
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in the landfills
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about seventy two percent of it could
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actually be not thrown away like
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recycled reused repurposed or composted
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a lot of stuff that’s in the and in fact
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when you think I think I bet I bet a lot
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of it is compostable yeah yeah quite a
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lot of it is compostable in fact they
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figure I’ve got that number down here
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somewhere but it’s a significant amount
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is stuff that could be composted had it
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not been thrown away in the trash
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so what do you do with most waste solid
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waste well in our society we typically
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either burn it or we recycle it which
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includes composting or it’s buried in
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the ground and firing away just digging
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a hole burying it in ground that’s
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that’s the number one solution you know
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out of sight out of mind that that is
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our national motto well the thing that
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comes to mind when I sell for example in
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thinking about disposable diapers and
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then it takes them 500 years to
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decompose I wonder how they know that
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like nobody waited around for 500 years
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these things have been around for what
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50 years maybe about 10% gone oh I’d say
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yeah so so I was just thinking you know
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what’s the reason we’re not going back
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to these corporations and saying look
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you’re creating products that are not
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responsible you know it’s not a
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responsible product it’s it takes 500
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years or more or maybe it’s never going
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to decompose and and it could be
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constructed in a different way like for
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example people who are trying to be more
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responsible or understand that
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disposable diapers are often a health
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issue for babies would be they have
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cloth diapers that are made of cotton
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and then there’s a little liner so it’s
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a much smaller it’s not one big diaper
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but it’s a little liner like feminine
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napkin would be or a sanitary napkin
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there’s a whole different ballgame that
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it’s still going to take a while to
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decompose but not five hundred years
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right or you just use cloth diapers and
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wash them and then you don’t have that
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disposal issue well that’s true but a
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lot of people are gonna go for the
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convenience well that’s what it’s all
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about
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I mean that’s pretty much the the crux
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of our problem with solids waste is it’s
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a lot easier to use something once throw
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it away and if there is and we talked a
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lot about externalized costs if nobody’s
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held responsible for cleaning up this
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thing you know the company that’s making
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the money on the disposable
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diaper is not being tasked with the with
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getting rid of it right if we say it’s
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out of sight it’s like very French out
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of sight out of mind if someone throws
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it along the side of the road well it’s
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not pampers that has to go pick it up
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it’s it’s either it’s gonna be the tax
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payer the tax payer is going to clean up
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for people’s well not it doesn’t seem
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like it’s a tax payer now even as people
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like you and me that’s going that when
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when we decided to take the Kawasaki
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Mule and go along the road for two miles
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and pick up trash for a day so it’s the
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Saints amongst us oh that must be it
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right well it’s those of us who don’t
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want to look at it it’s ridiculous and
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and almost everything that we pick up I
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mean so here this good example so when
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we have cleaned up the road it’s almost
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two miles down to the stop signs we have
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so we have often said so we’d identified
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straws were a big issue right off the
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get-go like 15 years ago but we also
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said look it’s the fast-food companies
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that really should be held accountable
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you know it’s the beer companies that
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really should be happy we saw this when
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we were in France I mean France said
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look if we’re going around the roads
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picking up McDonald’s trash we’re going
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to bill
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McDonald’s for their cause because you
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created this thing now obviously we
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could point to the idiot who threw it
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out the window of their car is being
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responsible but you can’t necessarily
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track that person down but you can track
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down McDonald’s so they’re saying why
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should the taxpayer pay for it when
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you’re the one who profited from the
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initial sale so that’s the argument
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there and you could argue the same thing
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although the administration might get
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crazy but what we’ve seen in all of this
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is if you leave it to personal behavior
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and say don’t litter
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don’t waste don’t you know try and use
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reusable you will make a certain amount
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of progress but not not enough because
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most people are pretty self-absorbed and
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and not putting this as the first thing
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in their mind you know it’s convenient
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to go buy a plastic bottle and drink it
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as opposed to always remember to carry
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around your metal bottle or glass bottle
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well but if we’re faced with the true
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cost of that we would never have a
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plastic bottle
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yeah but that requires thinking and
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planning and a moral compass so we’ve
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eliminated about 90% of the population
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right there right oh you’re so house
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inacol I get it’s never enough right so
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I’m noticing that more alright so but
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recycling is getting better and this is
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primarily voluntary let me tell you the
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nice thing you just told me I was
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negative and now you want to step on my
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step on mine I won’t be negative logical
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I’m I’m often accused in these podcasts
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of being the one who goes off a tangent
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I was just about to be very logical and
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linear okay alright that’s good but
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don’t harsh my mellow alright so so
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we’ve got I think the styrofoam in the
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recording studios guitar all right so
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recycling rates have increased from
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about 10% in the US and 1985 to about
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35% but we’re still poor compared to
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other codecs pathetic in all these years
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we only went up to 35% the one simple
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actually almost waste of time thing that
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people could do but if our math scores
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increased that much we’d be we’d be
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thrilled they went the opposite way you
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know from from 35% knowing how to add
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two plus two to 10% but Germany is an
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example they are at about 65 percent so
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it shows you obviously were we’re pretty
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poor in in comparison well Jim Germany
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has a whole different attitude I mean
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their government their corporations
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everything is structured to want to do
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better they’re encouraged I mean when
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like when I went to the grocery store in
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Germany there was a table after you
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checked out and went there and you took
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your cereals out of the boxes they’re
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already in wax paper and put the box you
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know broke it down and put it in the
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recycle bin right they were leaving the
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trash
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basically the packaging for the store
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owner or owner for the store owner to
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dispose of which would then encourage
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the store owner not to have as much
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packaging I got it there was less
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packaging and and part of that was that
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the people who shop typically walked
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home so the less packaging the less it
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was
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and speaking of packaging as we’re
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buying more and more things on the
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internet why do we need any packaging on
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the thing that finally comes to us in
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the mail if the packaging is there to
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entice you to buy a thing pick it off
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the shelf purchase it shouldn’t they be
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able to get rid of that and just sell it
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to you in a plain brown paper wrapper
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you know I mean well they they could do
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that but they’re there so here’s the
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challenge I think in humans and I think
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it’s also probably in the livestock
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world too
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the challenge is first of all we have to
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think these things through and secondly
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we have to focus on what we have in
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common so none of the corporations and
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not even oftentimes small business
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owners where we’re not coming together
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to say all right this is a real problem
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what are what are we going to do about
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it and how do we focus on what we have
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in common what’s in it for me like you
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started out saying the people in Germany
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who were shopping the reason this whole
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deconstruction of the packaging happened
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at the store is because they don’t want
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to have to find the space to carry at
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home because they’re pulling a little
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cart they’re walking so what everybody
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did was say look what’s the one thing
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this customer really wants well they
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want to be able to buy more and carry it
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in some kind of way to get home so then
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you say all right that’s a recycling an
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answer to recycling but we’re not doing
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that here right and and I think we’ll
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all agree speaking of finding something
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in common that the problem seems to be
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getting worse not better
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as far as solid waste and and how do we
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deal with it just to give you a few few
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statistics these shows the scope of how
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big this is we purchase about 18 billion
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disposable
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diapers per year takes about 500 years
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for them to decompose we purchase about
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four trillion plastic bags every year
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and that was take about a thousand years
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to break down and when they do break
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down even more problems of course in a
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thousand years
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I guess we’ll deal well breaking down
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and decomposing which is what’s right
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they become small particulates of
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plastics and may be fantastic thread
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water stream and the food stream and all
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of that and and humans buy a million
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plastic bottles every single day which
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is sorry every single minute not every
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day a million bottles every minute now
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think about it when we were kids it was
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rare to have a plastic bottle right
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everything came in glass bottles or
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cardboard cartons something like that
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the plastic bottle industry is a pretty
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new although it’s not so new anymore
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going back to when we were kids but you
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know it’s I mean we used to it’s more
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than 60 years I know Josh that’s
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yesterday anyway the but you used to
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have returnable bottles and and the
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milkman you know pick up the old bottles
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and take them back and those kind of
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things yeah so it’s it’s like nothing
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about the solution is new it came back
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so we we didn’t stay with what the true
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cost was we went with what was cheap and
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that’s the challenge yeah and and what’s
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convenient and and and there’s no
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denying using something and throwing it
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away is convenient for that moment right
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if I don’t get any damned inconvenient
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excuse my French at once it’s used once
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it’s produced – what where does it go
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how does it dealt with well that’s
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someone else’s problem to worry about no
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it’s not okay well then we have to
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somehow internalize that somehow
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internalize that and and so some of the
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the solutions of course has been
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traditionally landfills now there are
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some studies that say that we’re going
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to be running out of landfills here and
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we’ve already run out of landfills look
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at San Francisco I mean they have
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amazing things they’re doing they
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but they don’t have they they ran out of
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landfill space so we’ve exported a lot
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of it in fact in 19 2014 trash was the
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United States largest export by volume
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so we win we’re gonna send it away all
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right well you were listening to win the
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biomass it’s the wind turbine with Jay
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and Annie Warmke reminding you it is
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indeed the end of the world as we know
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it and thank God thank God there we go
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all right so today we’re talking about
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solid waste trying to get towards zero
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race we’ve we’ve identified a lot of the
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problems so so let’s let’s talk about
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solutions hey how’s that how’s that fair
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transition
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Annie solved the problem okay well stop
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shopping that would be that would be my
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first solution and I know that’s not on
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your outline but we have to stop
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consuming in the way that we consume and
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we buy you know we’ve got 40 t-shirts
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when how many can you wear at the same
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time maybe on a bad winter day ten of
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them to stay warm but the rest of the
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year no you know it’s the way we think
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about it so we’ve got to stop consuming
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we’ve got to stop filling up some kind
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of hole inside of ourselves that seems
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to be vacant so if you were in fifth
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grade and the teacher is telling you how
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do you save the world and you do the
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reduce reuse recycle all right reduce
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there you go reduce all right reduce
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don’t use as much stuff so that’s number
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one
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oh I think it’s a lot more complicated
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than that all come on all right so for
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example how about if you start with a
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list of things you again everything we
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talked about is about planning so if I’m
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going to go to to eat out at a
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restaurant and I know I’m not a very big
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eater so I’m going to take with me a
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container a reusable container instead
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of taking the Styrofoam container or
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even biodegradable container that that
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restaurants gonna give me to bring home
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my stuff this requires planning I’m
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going to say no to straws if I am a
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person who doesn’t want to put my lips
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on a glass that came out of a commercial
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kitchen which is the argument people
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make I’m going to bring a metal straw a
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stainless steel straw and I’m going to
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use that I’m going to point out plastic
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straws number nine on the Dirty Dozen
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list of things floating around in the
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ocean it’s not just dirty does and it
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kills animals yeah well what’s number
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one what’s number one of things
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bag no cigarette butts okay well yeah
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then you get paper pieces plastic pieces
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Styrofoam class all right and and so you
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know I was watching a film I think it
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was called seeds and I started to sort
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of feel panic-stricken even though I’m a
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person who grows a lot of our own food
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and trades for food and buys food at
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auction and at farmers market and I was
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thinking I can’t go to the grocery store
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anymore because everything is filled
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with plastic threads and bag chemicals
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and I just started to feel overwhelmed
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by it well that’s one of the problems is
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because you know it always comes back to
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us saying you know buy food from people
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you know shop locally because regardless
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of what they say you’re you’re just not
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sure what you’re getting in the food
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when you go to the to the grocery store
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it’s and the solid waste issue is
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another one of these things you know
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that comes into the into our food stream
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what I’m getting at you know it’s all
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fine and good to talk about these things
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and I’m a person who’s really doing all
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of these things to make sure that we
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have better health and and take care of
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the things that we should be taking care
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of but there are times when it just
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feels so like there’s no hope because I
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don’t want to go to the grocery store I
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don’t trust the labels I don’t I’m not
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being paranoid
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I mean it’s most of it isn’t trustworthy
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so I do prefer and I do try to buy from
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people I know and of course not
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everybody
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has that opportunity but it just feels
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really bad well I don’t think you’re the
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only one who feels this way and what
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we’re starting to see is a certain
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amount of shops entrepreneurs who are
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who are moving or trying to cater to
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that concern there was an interesting
18:13
article in The Guardian recently about
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zero-waste shops you know where they
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essentially have no packaging it reminds
18:19
me a little bit of the old frontier
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general store where you have a big bin
18:24
full of gumballs or whatever probably
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not on the frontier gumballs get me some
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tobacco barrels but you get just a
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little paper bag and you fill it up I
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mean why is there this this
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all-consuming need for everything to be
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shrink-wrapped in some sort of plastic
18:46
well because as they say it’s the shelf
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real estate and so there are 40 kinds of
18:52
beans and you know one of the things
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that I like about shopping at all these
18:58
which I’m not usually into making
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commercials unpaid endorsement yes but
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all these is doing a really great job at
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you know they have one kind of black
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bean and one kind of spaghetti and you
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know so and so you do know what you’re
19:15
getting because they are making a
19:17
concerted effort to move in in the right
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direction I’ve never understood like you
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go in there and they will individually
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shrink-wrap cucumbers and things like
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that you know I mean not all these but
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but stores where I mean can’t you buy
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vegetables that aren’t individually
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shrink wrapped in plastic so that way
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because there okay so here’s the
19:36
challenge they’re shipped a long way
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mm-hm and they’re grown to be shipped a
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long way and so if you cumbers
19:45
particularly are pretty delicate and so
19:48
they can rot very quickly or be wounded
19:50
and so if the cucumbers were coming from
19:53
five miles down the road and they were
19:55
picked that day or the next day or
19:57
whatever or the day before then that
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wouldn’t be an issue that plastic wrap
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wouldn’t be an issue and we’d find that
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if we begin as the consumer which is
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what we all are apparently is that’s all
20:09
we are I just
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say that’s the problem that’s all we are
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but if we then start putting priority on
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taste freshness locality lack of
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packaging then these corporations are
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going to supply that to us you know
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they’re only given us what we want and
20:27
so you can’t sit here and say it is the
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evil corporation because they’re
20:30
basically just selling people what they
20:32
want in order to make money well that’s
20:35
all the corporate it’s not again they’re
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not being held accountable to the true
20:39
cost of that price yeah let’s take them
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out back and beat them up no let’s hold
20:43
them accountable for the from cradle to
20:45
grave of that product okay so so what
20:48
are some other we’ve talked about zero
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waste shops reducing how much you’re
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buying
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no no straws no bottles try and get away
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packaging then clothing clothing swaps
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this is a big thing you always like to
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do right well 7% of textiles or material
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ends up in the landfill no no 7% of
21:07
landfill oh is Texas worse man oh yeah
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yeah man mm-hmm
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those are probably all my clothes
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because I wear them until they are
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absolute garbage so so so clothing so it
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just blows me away that people go to buy
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new clothing there are so many amazing
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shops that exist today that didn’t when
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I was younger that are benefitting
21:35
others by your purchase or at least
21:38
benefiting that neighborhood they’re not
21:40
some big conglomerate and they have
21:43
incredible things that people often
21:45
never even wore or used in some way bed
21:48
linens I mean it isn’t just about
21:50
clothing it’s all kinds of things that
21:53
end up in those shops that have much
21:56
more life to them and and the price is
21:59
inexpensive and it benefits everything
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and even the clothing that is tacky
22:05
again I’m speaking of my clothing tacky
22:08
worn-out nobody else is ever gonna want
22:11
to wear it and that doesn’t even get
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wasted when you’re donating it right
22:14
because it goes to rags it goes to grind
22:17
do you make rugs and you know things
22:19
like that
22:20
clothing send it off to Africa where my
22:23
clothes
22:24
actually quite chic you know is no it
22:26
isn’t that it’s that way our brand is on
22:28
everybody in Africa that says Nike and
22:31
whatever anyway another good idea about
22:34
clothing since it is making up about 7%
22:38
of the landfill is the idea of swapping
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clothing so whether it’s a baby clothes
22:46
swap or we have in our family at birth
22:49
they swap and my women friends come and
22:51
bring stuff they don’t want anymore it’s
22:53
not just clothing but there’s a lot of
22:55
clothing and we have a potluck together
22:57
and celebrate our lives and have a great
23:01
time exchanging things and then
23:03
sometimes if you lost weight you gained
23:06
weight and that’s why those clothes are
23:07
in there then somebody comes back in a
23:10
year or so to the next swap and there’s
23:12
your dress back yeah I’m wearing a doll
23:14
that way – okay so clothing is something
23:22
actually that could easily absolutely
23:25
could we can fix that problem pretty
23:27
easily a lot we could decrease a lot of
23:29
food food waste another one right well
23:32
composting and it’s not just food waste
23:34
it’s also things like human waste it was
23:37
a huge problem paper products maintain
23:39
the rots that’s what we always say at
23:41
Blue Rock station if it rots it goes
23:43
into the compost and it’s a tremendous
23:47
tremendous waste to throw all of those
23:49
things yard waste and all that stuff
23:51
that can be composted because this
23:54
country is that our soil is sadly abused
23:59
and neglected and so every time we
24:02
create compost we’re creating a way to
24:04
feed the soil and you think about all
24:06
these people my mom used to say my
24:08
grandfather who was actually born in
24:10
1862 and he was in his 70s when my mom
24:14
was born so that’s why he’s old but he
24:16
would have thought we were in st. by
24:19
bags that have soil inside or by water
24:24
you know this is the craziness of our
24:26
culture so we throw all this stuff away
24:27
that could be composted and we can make
24:29
soil and then we go to the store and we
24:32
buy ourselves some soil in a plastic bag
24:34
absolutely that’s not biodegrade
24:36
as it should be okay so so the
24:39
composting don’t don’t take us don’t
24:41
waste as much food as possible I mean
24:43
when people buy stuff they never eat
24:46
throw it away it just becomes a problem
24:48
so this is a problem that can become a
24:50
solution well some of that has to happen
24:52
through training as well we you know we
24:55
don’t have home back in school anymore
24:56
and we don’t learn how to preserve food
24:59
or conserve food or make leftovers and
25:03
another thing in the food realm don’t
25:07
eat fast food I mean not just to keep
25:09
yourself alive you know by now but the
25:12
packaging is amazing I mean there’s a
25:14
lot and the food the word food should be
25:18
well it’s fast anyway let’s have it’s
25:21
half right so and the packaging of
25:24
course everything gets down to the
25:25
packaging and and I guess what
25:28
one option is just complain a lot make
25:31
yourself a nuisance yeah well let’s say
25:33
something about recycling before we
25:35
finish okay it’s recycling this next on
25:37
my list
25:38
okay so recycling in my mind
25:41
cost a lot to the environment and so we
25:44
should be buying things that can be
25:46
reused or repurposed if at all possible
25:48
and it’s it’s not a very efficient
25:50
process it often involves a lot of not
25:54
just energy but pollution in its own
25:57
right and it’s a game it’s like a
25:58
bait-and-switch kind of game in my mind
26:01
so I’m really not that keen about it
26:04
really should be at the bottom of the
26:05
list of things we’re gonna do well and
26:07
one of the insidious things about
26:08
recycling and and of course it’s always
26:10
you always hear well you know it’s not
26:12
that it’s bad well yeah of course it’s
26:14
better than nothing but it often times
26:17
in people’s minds gives them
26:20
justification for consuming throwaway
26:22
stuff because they’re going to recycle
26:24
it like problem solved well yeah they
26:26
say I’m doing my part for the
26:27
environment I recycle like no and and
26:31
then if you compare it with other
26:32
alternatives like the statistic we found
26:35
if you wanted to offset the carbon
26:38
impact of one airplane flight you’d have
26:41
to recycle forty thousand plastic
26:44
bottles oh I can fly a long time now
26:47
so that kind of and it’s just not a very
26:52
efficient way yeah well the other thing
26:56
is just look at the packaging when you
26:57
go to a store and there are things we
27:00
can do and if we’re buying I would say
27:03
not aluminum aluminum when you study it
27:06
is really really horrible for human
27:08
beings and animals but paper and
27:10
cardboard go for paper cardboard glass
27:13
stainless steel wax paper or parchment
27:16
paper which has no no petroleum on it
27:19
okay well we’ve solved the solid waste
27:21
problem and you have been listening to
27:23
win the biomass it’s the wind turbine
27:25
with Jay and Annie Warmke we want to
27:27
thank our producer our Emmy
27:29
award-winning producer Adam Rich and
27:32
thank you for spending just a little bit
27:34
of time with us and as your grandmother
27:36
probably hopefully told you the secret
27:38
to a happy and sustainable life is play
27:40
nice with others clean up your own mess
27:43
and eat the veggies that were grown by
27:45
your local file and not rough and
27:47
blessed that’s right
28:15
[Music]
28:21
you can find more information on living
28:23
sustainably in our unsustainable world
28:26
at Blue Rock station calm
28:31
you
28:33
[Music]