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00:06
[Music]
00:14
welcome to this edition of when the
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biomass hits the wind turbine a
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discussion of sustainable living a
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discussion and what that means to you
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and me I’m Jay Warmke and I’m Annie Warmke
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and today we’re gonna talk about
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natural gardening or you can’t fight
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mother nature I know now where you don’t
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tell me ahead of time that’s right so
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tell me how we’re not going to fight
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mother nature while we were talking
00:43
about natural gardening and my first
00:46
question of course to you was well what
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is unnatural good you know tell me I
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mean unnatural could be yeah could be a
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lot of things I’m assuming I think
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unnatural would be to garden in the nude
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absolutely that could be very natural it
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know there’s lots of stickers and bugs
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that garden of eden’ baby all right okay
01:12
so tell me tell me some of the problems
01:14
we have with with gardening from the
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Garden of Eden to this present day I
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don’t know if we’ve gone from the garden
01:22
but we have gone from the idea that that
01:28
Nick that we would work with nature and
01:30
that instead we’re going to fight nature
01:32
so that’s why very things that are
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unnatural like spraying of chemicals I
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mean lots of chemicals that have been
01:40
sprayed on land for growing food and and
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flowers over the course of the last 50
01:47
years we were developed for war
01:49
well the ammonia based fertilizer
01:51
industry I mean ammonia was a was a
01:53
wartime Agent Orange kind of stuff yeah
01:57
so we’ve got insecticides that are
01:59
designed to kill pests and these are
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these are warfare develop items we have
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fertilizers that are ammonia based
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primarily we can blow stuff up with them
02:10
so we just use spray monthiy so so
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you’re taking all of these chemicals and
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trying to manipulate an environment that
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would grow things pretty naturally if we
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just absolutely so soon unnatural just
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to finish answering your question we
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want
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act like we’re gonna like tame nature
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which is constantly changing constantly
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morphing constantly trying to take back
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for itself what belongs to us like a
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forest you cut down the forest and if
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you leave it alone it’s going to start
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to grow plants that utilize a lot of
02:47
light and then that will create shadow
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for the ones that don’t use as much
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light and then those will get taller so
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that the there’s more more shade and
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it’s it’s really amazing to watch what
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happens over time well I know at Blue
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Rock station I’m constantly hacking back
03:04
the jungle that’s trying to retake us
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and and we see those things I know there
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are some of those specials where they
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say if humans disappeared from the
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planet you know how many years would it
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be until New York City looks like a
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jungle and and you know it’s a
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surprisingly short amount of time no I
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mean things grow yes they do and look at
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Mount st. Helens you know volcano came
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and wiped out that place but within 10
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years there was new growth and new
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things and but the thing about unnatural
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gardening is that instead of working
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with nature and saying that all those
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first plants that come for example when
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you cut down the forest they often have
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lots of food that could be consumed by
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humans we say get rid of that we don’t
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want that
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also unnatural would be to create plants
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and life where we can’t save the seed so
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it cannot reproduce on its own or in a
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natural way and that that type thing is
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just motivated by corporate greed well
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yes because they want to do something
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that’s absolutely unconstitutional that
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is to own seed the Constitution is very
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specific about owning that kind of thing
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patenting see yeah no no we have a long
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history of allowing people to own life
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that’s the truth you know slavery mm-hmm
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the other thing is that in trying to be
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natural and fighting nature is that we
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have said that we don’t we bring plants
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and aren’t native that can’t adjust to
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the environment so what what we really
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what
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we really want to do is to work with
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nature not against it and so we want to
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grow in a way that’s more native and
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more natural so I know when I first was
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seriously wanting to grow food I had
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this great idea I wanted to have a
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cottage garden and I loved cottage
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garden
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I had been living in England and it was
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just so beautiful and its really a great
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way to incorporate vegetables with
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plants but then I chose a bad location
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and location location location is the is
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the key so bad location like Ohio know
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like where you’re going to put your
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plant okay more specific especially
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especially the 30 to Appalachian
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counties of Ohio are really fantastic
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rich places for a plant life and herbal
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medicinal herbals and things like that
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anyway so the space that I wanted to put
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my cottage garden and grow my vegetables
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and everything it turned out that it
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held water about 70% of the year and I
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had no way of knowing that so everything
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I planted rotted and that was bad on my
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part and naive on my part so instead of
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fighting nature you should have planted
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rice well not really because the grounds
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heart is a rock and that was the other
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problem I had was that naturally clay
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you know clay is a tiny little speck
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under glass under a microscope that
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becomes a hard ball when it comes
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together when it’s dry and as you say
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nature always seems to have a habit of
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winning and and it just reminded me what
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you were saying there we are trying to
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plant fruit trees in this nice clay
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environment and and we’re having trouble
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because when you dug a hole you’re
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basically creating this clay pot and
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then water would fill it up and then it
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would saturate the roots and they would
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rot yeah in the wintertime when the when
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all the repair of the roots is going on
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they would rot so I read a book on how
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to fix that problem and it said downhill
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from where the hole is that you just dug
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dig another hole that will allow the
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water to drain out of the hole that you
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just dug and okay so I went out dug this
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other hole and then I had a bigger clay
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pot because they both fell so my uncle
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who was quite the not just a gardener
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but also an arborist I asked him what to
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do and he said lift him up out of the
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ground yeah built a raised bed so that’s
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what we ended up doing with tires with
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most of our plantings as say alright if
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we’ve got this clay soil that doesn’t
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drain I guess we have to build up an
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artificial bed that then will drain
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right so we use tires for the fruit
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trees and raised beds with them you know
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four by eight or so pieces of not pieces
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but four by eight beds for for growing
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things anyway the point is that we
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needed to say why does nature giving us
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and then how can we use that to the best
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advantage for our concern for its
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highest purpose and I think it also in
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terms of natural gardening if I’m
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looking at a site and I’m saying I want
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to grow something there what I really
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have to do is to take into consideration
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everything that’s happening there so I
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remember early on when we were getting
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ready to dig a pond and and I was
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thinking about what was I gonna plant
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there and around it and everything and
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this killdeer came and she laid some
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eggs and she was carrying on like crazy
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we needed her not to be there because we
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were digging this pond and then at some
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point we said why are we fighting let’s
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just let her do what she needs to do and
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then when they hatch we’ll go back to
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digging the pond and that became a
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really important point in my career is
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somebody who grows food I said I wanted
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to look at everything I want to look at
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where’s the water naturally where’s the
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good ground naturally what kind of
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insects what kind of animals are drawn
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to that space what kind of birds are
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going to come there and how is a human
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being am I going to be able to work as a
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partner in that space so that’s the
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first part of natural gardening is to
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say that I’m just a part of that space
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and what does it have to offer me and
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what is it that I can do to help that
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space to to stay as natural as possible
09:13
because if I’m growing something so for
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example I have lots of medicinal herbs
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that grow around our farm but I haven’t
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planted them now we could we could say
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let’s just weed whack because they’re
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all weeds or whatever but instead what
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we’ve done is say alright this space is
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for this particular group of medicinal
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herbs and then we mulch with leaves
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we cut them at the appropriate time and
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preserve them as we need to but they’re
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not in a garden they’re where they grow
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naturally so that would be an idea about
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naturally raising things so that’s just
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an extension of saying plant what wants
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to be there or if it’s already there
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maybe just let it be there yeah if it’s
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useful to plants or animals the other I
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mean to humans or animals but the other
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thing is for example as far as Woodlands
10:08
are concerned you know forest gardening
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has become something fairly popular with
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lots of farm people because the forests
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have kind of just been there even though
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our livestock really ought to be in the
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forest because that’s where they came
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from naturally eating in the forest but
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the forest is full of nuts and fruits
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and all kinds of amazing things but we
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don’t know what to do with it so when we
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look at that space and we say let’s
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analyze what’s there let’s identify
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what’s there that tells us a lot about
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what’s been there in the past and it
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also tells us what’s possible in the
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future so if I back up because I’m
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talking like a farmer and really most
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people are gonna be listening or not
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farmers I want to also talk about lawns
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because lawns have a lot of potential
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but not in the way we use them so lawns
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are grass is the biggest crop that we
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grow in this country and it produces
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nothing it’s also a huge consumer of
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really bad chemicals it’s a big
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pollution pit so to speak but if we have
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these lawns that can grow up and be more
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like a
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where they attract all kinds of
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beneficial insects and also other
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critters that maybe people find to be
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something they don’t want but little
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snakes and toads and things like that
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well so far you’re really selling this I
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love that we have a rain garden that’s
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full of lovely little toads and they
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come in this in February when the when
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there’s a flooded area and they it’s a
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vernal Pond as they call it and they
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sing and have a dance they do and but
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one of the problems people are gonna
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have is if you’re in a city or a suburb
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and you try and convince the code
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inspector that this is a meadow not not
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a lawn and they’re gonna have very
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little sympathy because our laws try and
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keep us again from being non sustainable
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well it’s not just not sustainable but
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we’re consuming is it lawns are
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consuming huge amount of money to
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corporations but we can allow space we
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can allow space for a meadow it could be
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the size that are smaller by four make a
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border around it and then suddenly yeah
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it looks like maybe or put it in the
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backyard not in the front but that
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meadow that little meadow even if it’s
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four by four has the potential to bring
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a lot of beneficial insects and critters
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to your gardening that will eat bugs and
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take care of things for you mm-hmm yeah
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and you can also then as you were
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talking about trying to deal with water
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issue you know the rain gardens and
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trying to deal with drainage in a in a
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way that nature wants to drain you know
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we we always try and fight nature and we
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always lose whenever we I mean look at a
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city like New Orleans you know built
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below the floodplain we’re always
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ultimately going to lose if we don’t
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adapt ourselves to what nature wants to
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do right well we we don’t have anything
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set up really to do that very very well
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some cities are starting to do better
13:14
with some of that and their zoning and
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planning and but I think we’re moving
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towards that mainly because we don’t
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have a choice
13:22
we we have to do better and as things
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change through climate change and
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weather changes
13:30
these things are gonna be more obvious
13:32
that we have to try to do better okay
13:35
well you are listening to when the
13:36
biomass hits the wind turbine with Jay
13:38
and Annie Warmke reminding you it is
13:41
indeed the end of the world as we know
13:43
it thank God thank God there you go
13:46
so today we’re talking about natural
13:48
gardening working with nature against
13:51
nature one of the terms you hear a lot I
13:53
love how people love to label things but
13:55
like xeriscaping or or what’s the other
13:58
one that we hear a lot about I don’t
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know oh yeah I’m looking at you it’s
14:05
like I don’t know I’m not big on knowing
14:08
these things you know permaculture
14:10
permaculture yeah everybody I took a
14:11
class in permaculture and you know you
14:13
got to work with nature and not against
14:15
nature I said that took a long time to
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take that class I hope well as human
14:19
beings we like to give labels that’s how
14:21
our brain is able to collect maintain
14:24
and keep information and so that’s good
14:27
that there are these names out there but
14:29
what it really comes back to is more
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about common sense and paying attention
14:33
so you can call it whatever you want and
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and I’m glad there are these classes out
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there you can take a master gardening
14:39
class through your load local your load
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or your your local Extension Office in
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almost any state and learn all about a
14:48
lot of things we’re talking about and
14:50
much more because they’re not they’re
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not just they’re not rooted in the kinds
14:55
of things that I’m talking about so much
14:57
they’re very broad in terms of growing
14:59
and propagating and things like that is
15:04
a great way to learn the basics and
15:07
there are lots of classes out there on
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permaculture and natural gardening and
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organic gardening and all that well one
15:13
of the things around gardening that
15:14
people are always fighting is is
15:17
critters pests you know bugs that are
15:19
eating their crops deer that are eating
15:21
their crops raccoons that are coming in
15:24
and Terran here’s a corn off of whatever
15:27
and I know you deal with that a lot so
15:30
tell us your wisdom I personally haven’t
15:33
had too much of that although lately
15:35
since we don’t have a livestock Guardian
15:37
dog we have deer that actually came up
15:40
by the back door which was like a
15:42
shocker well the thing is
15:44
that’s part of why you want to study the
15:46
space because if you don’t realize that
15:49
these critters are hungry and wanting to
15:53
gain access and you don’t create a way
15:56
to try to prevent it and that’s all
15:58
you’re going to do is try to prevent it
16:00
so for example in an in a natural way
16:04
in looking at things in vs. I’m gonna
16:06
sit there with my shotgun and shoot the
16:08
critters is that I would want to create
16:11
several barriers to that that critter
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wanting to come into my space in my
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garden so first of all I wouldn’t plant
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the things that that that critter likes
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to eat so much I’m on the outside you
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know when it put it towards the outside
16:28
of the garden I want to put things that
16:29
they aren’t going to like too much or
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things that maybe they don’t like the
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smell of and certainly there are quite a
16:35
few of those things versus corn on the
16:37
outside of the garden so the other thing
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you can do is have a really high fence
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so that would be another type of barrier
16:44
again these are many barriers you should
16:46
have you’re not going to keep them out
16:48
with a 8-foot fence because they’ll
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figure it out but you’re hindering them
16:52
I mean you’ve used chili powder and
16:54
things like that well you can go to the
16:56
hairdresser or the dog groomer and you
16:59
can collect up hair and this this hair
17:02
has the scent that a deer or a coon
17:05
doesn’t want to smell they smell that
17:07
and they’re uneasy and then you could
17:09
get some old sheets and you could roll
17:12
the hair you know like a bed roll kind
17:15
of thing you know a long bed roll and
17:16
you put that further out because that’s
17:19
one of the first things you want this
17:21
animal to smell and notice is that there
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may be a human so this would be beyond
17:27
the plantings beyond the fence and then
17:30
you can also take a soap that’s still in
17:33
the package a really good smelly soap
17:37
like Irish Spring that’s what I was
17:40
thinking I respect it’s not just for
17:43
raccoons anymore oh yeah so anyway
17:49
beyond the commercial for Irish Spring
17:53
and you tie that maybe to the fence but
17:56
more likely better for the row
17:58
away so if they’re trees or maybe some
18:00
posts that you can hang up and all of
18:04
these are a line of defense that says to
18:06
that critter maybe I should go to the
18:08
next place and try their food well
18:11
another thing you’ve done is don’t plant
18:13
everything all in like a group I mean
18:16
nature doesn’t do that they don’t put
18:18
like everything in pretty rows you know
18:20
all together is pretty rows but here’s
18:24
that here’s this what we’ve always said
18:25
about you but I don’t want to hear an
18:29
explanation of that on the radio but
18:31
here’s the thing we so that is for the
18:35
possibility of destruction so I plant
18:37
some things in one place and some of
18:40
those those very same things it may be
18:42
three places or four places so if a
18:45
critter comes and destroys it or there’s
18:47
too much rain or there’s something else
18:50
happens to it blight or whatever I still
18:53
have those vegetables or those fruits or
18:55
those herbs in another place and you
18:58
have planted things for the bugs or for
19:01
the animals that like for instance if a
19:03
certain pest is attracted to tomatoes
19:07
maybe plant some plant they like even
19:09
better that you don’t care about so so
19:12
you can deflect them deflect their do
19:13
right well that’s called companion
19:15
planning so one of the things that I
19:17
believe in studying a space is that I’m
19:21
not really planning to kill the bugs
19:24
what I want to do is have balance with
19:27
insects in my garden so what I what I
19:30
want to do is to say well the good bugs
19:33
need bad bugs to eat and so how do we
19:36
maintain that kind of balance and we can
19:39
do that with plants sometimes so if I
19:41
have a tomato plant and I don’t want
19:44
certain bugs to come and eat on my
19:46
tomatoes if I plant marigolds around the
19:51
perimeter of the plant also if you think
19:55
about what goes really well with
19:56
tomatoes things like garlic and onions
20:00
those are good deterrents to other bugs
20:02
because what happens is most insects
20:05
that you’re going to find in a garden
20:06
carry there smelling capabilities on
20:10
their side
20:11
their stomach is and they’re walking
20:15
along and they are sniffing to find the
20:18
plants so they depend on that sense of
20:21
smell and then they start to think they
20:23
smell a tomato but then it’s like wait a
20:26
minute it’s kind of mixed up in the
20:28
garlic and the onion and and the
20:31
marigolds are very very smelly they have
20:35
a very strong scent and it says no I
20:38
think I’ll keep going and that’s one way
20:41
you can change things in your garden
20:42
should create a better balance I also
20:44
have planted things like tobacco which
20:48
is a really great host for a lot of
20:51
pollinators so all kinds of things will
20:55
collect on the nicotine eeeh or the
20:59
tobacco and then they will go and
21:03
pollinate in my garden and a lot of
21:05
people are less it’s a pretty plant well
21:08
and it can be somewhat invasive because
21:10
if you live in even in northern states
21:13
it can seed itself back but it’s easily
21:16
enough to destroy it just by raking it
21:19
and destroying the plants it’s also a
21:22
sect and insecticide so you can dry the
21:25
leaves and it can smoke them but that’s
21:27
not my interest but you can dry the
21:29
leaves and then you can soak the leaves
21:31
that are dried in a gallon of water and
21:36
you can use that as a spray and it will
21:39
kill just about any kind of bug but a
21:40
potato bug so and and and it is lethal I
21:44
mean if your see those those greenhorn
21:48
worms that like to get on tomatoes and
21:51
they will just eat they’ll just devour
21:54
everything but if they get on nicotine
21:56
eeeh and they happen to get where
21:59
there’s just a little dried bit of the
22:01
leaf it’ll be dead almost immediately
22:04
don’t you have to worry about like skin
22:06
sensitivity with some of those it
22:08
doesn’t bother me but when I’ve had
22:10
people processing it with me it can
22:11
bother them yeah I mean tobacco is a
22:14
really tough plant environmentally I
22:16
mean for humans really tough on humans
22:18
hmm you heard it here first
22:20
yeah but but but it is great you know I
22:24
like to
22:25
with something called diatomaceous earth
22:27
and I like to dust my plants with that
22:30
because it’s made from diatoms which are
22:34
little critters that used to live in the
22:35
ocean when the West part of this country
22:38
was an ocean and then the oceans dried
22:41
up over time and so they collect up the
22:44
diatoms now and they make the water
22:47
softener the we buy bags of the
22:51
diatomaceous earth and you put it in
22:52
water softener but this diatomaceous
22:54
earth that I use is called flour grade
22:56
FL oh you are like cake flour if you
22:59
look at it under a microscope it looks
23:02
like a nunchuck so it’s got all these
23:04
barbs on it so insects carry moisture on
23:07
the outside of their body and this
23:09
flower is just like a giant dehydrator
23:12
so when a bug crawls across the leaf and
23:15
it gets that moisture on their skin it
23:18
does two things
23:19
it begins to cut the body of the insect
23:22
and it doesn’t kill it right away so
23:24
like for an see for example that ant
23:27
will go back to its friends and cousins
23:29
and neighbors and share the diatomaceous
23:31
earth it’s wearing and everybody dies
23:34
well you’ve also ground-up eggshells for
23:37
the same reason I mean not only because
23:39
they had calcium into the soil but yeah
23:43
they do it’s nice up slice up slugs
23:46
well tomatoes tomatoes require lots of
23:49
calcium where they get something called
23:51
bloom rot is it a compliment anyway the
23:54
the end where the bloom is on the tomato
23:58
will ride and that’s from lack of
24:00
calcium which can happen if there’s too
24:03
much rain but also deficiency in calcium
24:05
in the soil and so I grind up really
24:09
finely grind up eggshells and put around
24:13
under the canopy and then when slugs
24:16
want to come and destroy my beautiful
24:18
Tomatoes they are cut you can almost
24:22
hear I’m going out ciao ciao and they
24:23
and they die because slugs are really
24:26
gross so those are some of the natural
24:27
insecticides eggshells diatomaceous
24:30
earth tobacco nicotine eeeh what about
24:34
some of the fertilizers well good old
24:37
poop you know
24:39
first of all we try to start with good
24:41
soil so we’re lucky and that we live on
24:43
a farm and we have what we call deep
24:46
bedding in the winter with our livestock
24:49
so we have all this poop that’s mixed up
24:52
with urine and all the good stuff that
24:55
makes good compost and heats it up
24:58
quickly and then we put that someplace
25:01
so it becomes really black soil and then
25:03
that gets added to all of our raised
25:05
beds so that’s what we start with is
25:07
good compost but it also has some times
25:10
some depletion and it minerally so we’ll
25:13
make up teas with different kinds of
25:17
poops and use that when the plants are
25:21
setting their fruits because there’s a
25:23
need for more nitrogen at that point for
25:27
the plant and in the fall we’ll put lots
25:31
of eggshells and things around we’re
25:35
looking to create some potassium because
25:39
the root systems in plants are repairing
25:41
and growing in the winter time so we
25:43
have a lot of different things that
25:45
we’re going to do naturally to encourage
25:47
that plant to do what it needs to do and
25:49
the healthier the plant the less likely
25:52
it’s going to be destroyed by bugs but
25:54
another thing that was kind of
25:56
surprising to me when we were doing this
25:57
is not all manures are made equal I mean
26:01
they’re not we had a load hauled in from
26:03
the fairgrounds and oh that was a
26:05
disaster right you know all of the
26:09
worming and everything oh there were
26:11
needles oil filters and and it’s a metal
26:16
well so you want to you want to know
26:17
just like everything we talked about you
26:19
want to know where it comes from and
26:21
what’s been done with it so the other
26:23
thing that we try to do is plant for the
26:25
critters so there are things going to
26:27
come along and do things to those plants
26:30
so let’s have some for everybody so that
26:33
where we’re saying we live together one
26:35
for you that’s right and also you
26:38
brought up companion planning so that’s
26:40
a really good way to plant of how
26:42
different plants help other plants and
26:44
there are actually some weeds that are
26:46
very beneficial to other plants in
26:48
helping protect them from bugs and
26:50
succession planning we use in natural
26:52
gardening so
26:53
maybe we plant lettuce in the early
26:55
spring and then that will all get taken
26:57
out by the beginning of June and we’ll
26:59
put in a row of squash or something like
27:03
that and then we might plant a late
27:05
garden again once the squash is gone and
27:07
put in some kale and things like that
27:10
aren’t weeds just the garden I didn’t
27:12
plant
27:13
well weeds have many benefits if you
27:15
understand their beneficial nature okay
27:19
well you’ve been listening to when the
27:20
biomass it’s the wind turbine with Jay
27:22
and Annie Warmke we want to thank our
27:25
award-winning producer Adam rich and
27:27
thank you for spending just a wee bit of
27:30
time with us and as your grandmother
27:31
hopefully told you the secret to a happy
27:34
and sustainable life is play nice with
27:36
others clean up your own mess and plan a
27:39
garden garden and then next time
27:45
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28:05
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you can find more information on living
28:18
sustainably in our unsustainable world
28:20
at Blue Rock station calm
28:22
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28:26
you
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