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00:00
[Music]
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[Music]
00:14
welcome to this edition of when biomass
00:17
it’s the wind turbine a discussion of
00:19
sustainable living and what that means
00:21
to you and me I’m Jay Warmke and I’m
00:25
Annie Warmke and today we’re gonna talk
00:27
about making your farmer homestead a
00:29
non-profit business or how not to make
00:33
money on purpose so we’re going to be
00:35
joined today by Claire Orner and Claire
00:40
is co-owner of quite creek herb farm
00:43
and School of Country Living located in
00:46
Brookville Pennsylvania how you doing
00:48
Claire great thanks Jay thanks Annie
00:51
yeah I just want to say one thing okay
00:53
it’s not
00:54
I put not-for-profit because I thought
00:58
it would sound like a joke if I said
00:59
nonprofit because those of us who are
01:01
farming farmers know there is no profit
01:04
so so not four-bit pretty pretty much
01:08
every farm is a non-profit that’s right
01:10
okay so Claire Claire um again welcome
01:14
and why don’t you tell us just a little
01:15
bit about quite creeks I’m glad to share
01:21
this with everyone and any questions
01:24
anyone has down the road know that our
01:26
monitoring is there are no secrets of
01:28
quiet Creek so ask away basically we’re
01:32
a 30 acre farm in northwestern
01:35
Pennsylvania so we focus on education as
01:39
our key mission a mission to help people
01:43
live healthfully sustainable lives a
01:45
mission to teach people to think
01:48
ecologically and a mission to help save
01:52
natural resources so we have plenty to
01:54
share and the generations to come and
01:56
and how did you get started I mean
01:58
located there I’ve been there it’s
02:00
beautiful so did you actually start as a
02:02
business or you just started because you
02:04
want to be farmer oh really good
02:07
questions okay we’ll start with your
02:10
question
02:11
we started as a poor a for-profit farm
02:14
not knowing that none would be the
02:20
better route to take when resting I
02:24
moved back here this is where we both
02:26
grew up I was in Seattle WA
02:28
the desert students – education and
02:31
recipe my husband was a landscape
02:34
gardener and Whitford Rhode Island so
02:37
the last year of my grad program we
02:40
married so we was both on the Pacific
02:42
Northwest Coast we had a chance to buy
02:45
this farm his folks are about 30 miles
02:48
away and I have two sisters I don’t my
02:51
four sisters that live just over the
02:53
hill from this farm so we had a chance
02:55
to purchase it and I began school
03:00
teacher science teacher and rusty
03:01
started a landscape business and we were
03:06
starting our business with that in mind
03:09
so we could build community I know as an
03:12
educator people want to know that you’re
03:15
an educator and so on and so forth and
03:18
then we started building I retired to
03:24
the farm probably five years into our
03:27
for-profit business and then shortly
03:30
after that we wrote the regs or you know
03:34
men all the qualifications with the IRS
03:40
it sounds a bit windy there so there’s a
03:46
lot of static okay so so what are some
03:51
of the advantages because obviously you
03:54
you say you started out as a for-profit
03:56
but then you transition to a
03:58
not-for-profit what was the what was
04:01
really the primary motivation for doing
04:03
that yeah the real motivation was to be
04:06
able to write grants to be able to bring
04:09
as many pre-kindergarten to adults to
04:14
quiet Creek to let them enjoy the farm
04:17
and there’s many foundations and federal
04:20
and state agencies that want to meet the
04:24
mission that quiet Creek has and they
04:28
have tax dollars available to educate
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and the Foundation’s have corporate
04:35
profits available and so once you become
04:39
a not-for-profit
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you can write grants to seek that
04:44
funding so their mission is mat quiet
04:48
creeks mesh mission is met so that was
04:50
our real intent we wanted to try to
04:52
educate as many people as possible but
04:54
we found many school districts you know
04:58
pre-kindergarten organizations they just
05:02
may not have the funding to put out to
05:05
make a field experience or to come on a
05:07
regular basis we’ve been doing a lot of
05:09
that where the kids come weekly or we go
05:12
into their classroom weekly do you find
05:14
that with the not-for-profit status you
05:17
we always used to say there was like the
05:19
white hat kind of thing you’re you’re
05:21
suddenly like a good guy you know
05:23
because yeah I think a lot of people
05:27
view us that way Jay I think you truly
05:31
are a public servant I put it in the
05:33
same category as like a male person or a
05:37
teacher or you know working for the post
05:41
office or not federal or state workers
05:44
or County workers but we are working for
05:49
the general population to improve a
05:52
certain topic and in our case become
05:55
more sustainable so so right from the
05:57
start you were thinking about this you
05:59
know it’s a farm but but it was more of
06:02
an educational activity is that really
06:05
how you viewed it right from the start
06:06
yeah we really did we started having
06:11
classes and free festivals right off the
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bat I think I was in my first year of
06:16
teaching and I had a group of seventh
06:18
graders and we opened it up for them to
06:22
come out with their families and then
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open it up to the Brookville community
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the closest little town that we serve
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and so right off the bat so this all
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started in 1996 but we became official
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status as a 501c3 in 2003
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okay so it was a long process then yeah
06:44
kind of you know where to go it was a
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fun opportunity because in my family we
06:51
give homemade gifts in our extended
06:53
family and my brother is
06:55
certified public accountant and his
06:58
homemade gift for me was to help me
07:00
write the necessary documents for the
07:04
IRS to become a not-for-profit so very
07:07
nice gift so one of the things that
07:10
James passed also was what do you think
07:12
are some of the disadvantages because I
07:14
was thinking about the fact that so you
07:18
have this not-for-profit and you’re
07:20
working hard and it’s a beautiful place
07:22
I have been there to visit and really
07:25
think the world of what you’re doing but
07:27
I’m thinking alright at some point you
07:29
might get tired of doing that or you
07:32
might be into a place where you need to
07:35
retire or maybe there’s some health
07:37
issues how does that work that
07:39
transition and with that following two
07:41
disadvantages or advantages oh good
07:44
question and thanks for the kind words
07:46
to any yes I would say the disadvantage
07:52
would be as any teaching component you
07:56
know you are on you are high speed like
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today 180 fifth graders just you know
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went out the door jumped on four school
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buses and headed about 50 miles east of
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here you know high-intensity
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you know we had threat of thunderstorms
08:14
but it was a beautiful day and with
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seven learning stations that kids
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learned everything from worm composting
08:21
to making fruit and vegetable smoothies
08:24
and so on so the the disadvantage is you
08:28
know it’s high-energy it’s a lot of
08:29
effort to organize and to make things
08:33
happen but if any of us in our audience
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have taught before it’s kind of like
08:40
parenting it can be some of the most
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grueling years of our life but it can
08:45
also be some of the most rewarding years
08:48
of our lives so I would say definitely
08:52
lots of lots of work but any type of
08:56
farming if we’re farming goats or sheep
08:58
in this case we’re educating human
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beings Homo sapiens so it’s it’s a
09:03
little bit different but still it takes
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a lot of effort and
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to passion and to get into something
09:10
like this you really want to be
09:12
committed another disadvantage maybe as
09:15
a not-for-profit you are governed by a
09:20
board of directors and those people sit
09:23
on your board they advise you they may
09:25
take on certain roles maybe they help
09:28
you with marketing maybe to help you
09:30
with IT maybe to help you with payroll
09:34
but they need to be chosen carefully and
09:39
selectively instant in the sense that
09:42
you want them to definitely be your
09:45
cheerleaders and not caused animosity
09:51
I’ve never in my 20
09:54
I guess twenty four years of work here
09:57
at quiet Creek I’ve had wonderful
09:58
support of board members but you always
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hear through the grapevine that
10:03
sometimes you have a board that is not
10:06
supportive and they can be extremely
10:08
critical and cause you setbacks or fire
10:14
in real before fire you are fired
10:18
not profit boards before believe me they
10:23
were just doing their job oh yeah yeah
10:27
you’re right Annie a lot of people shy
10:30
away from that and being such a
10:33
Community Builder myself I find my board
10:36
energizes me and gives me good ideas and
10:39
I just really helps me along the way I
10:43
don’t feel any imposition I feel I’m
10:47
autonomous to make decisions and bring
10:50
it to the board and they give their
10:52
stamp of approval so it’s worked well a
10:56
quiet Creek it takes some grooming you
10:59
know we really try to give our board a
11:03
lot of status and offer them wonderful
11:09
farm-to-table meals whenever we have a
11:11
meeting to make it really enjoyable so
11:14
you’re bribing them with food yes we are
11:17
honoring them with what the farm is all
11:20
about the farm school is all about
11:22
so it is a nice reciprocation well in
11:26
terms of non non-profit board status I’m
11:29
wondering do they do they create the
11:32
budget and do they raise money and also
11:35
make their own financial contribution
11:37
commitment I think some board you do any
11:40
a quiet Creek they do not it’s a pretty
11:43
passive position we do all the
11:47
fundraising we you know take care of
11:51
writing the grant you know we keep the
11:55
infrastructure maintained yeah they have
11:58
to meet with us four times a year
12:01
the third excuse me the fourth meeting
12:03
isn’t only an email meeting the other
12:06
three are face to face so it’s not a lot
12:09
on their part and it gives us just kind
12:13
of a stamp of approval every quarter to
12:17
hear from them right that way then you
12:19
drive to work worried about getting
12:21
kicked to the curb for sure yeah yeah so
12:24
I know some go ahead I’m sorry well I
12:26
was just going to say what what are some
12:28
of the issues around down the road as
12:30
far as retirement you know how does that
12:34
transition happen because you don’t
12:36
really own the the corporation the the
12:40
board owns it so right and we’re right
12:43
there at that transition point so I’m
12:46
glad you brought that up just last week
12:48
young couple Robert and Jesse orth
12:52
with their son William returned to the
12:55
farm they had been apprentices in 2011
12:58
12 and they returned to the farm to
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become the new stewards of quiet Creek
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and so rusty and I will mentor them for
13:07
the next six months and then we will
13:09
transition out we’ll still be on the
13:12
board of directors but Robby and Jess
13:15
will take on the leadership roles there
13:17
and they will begin maintaining and
13:21
meeting the mission of the farm then
13:24
where are you going
13:24
oh wait Jase giving me the high sign no
13:27
no no I was just in my mind thinking you
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know old farmers never die they just go
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to sleep
13:34
oh yeah that’s a good so so what’s gonna
13:39
happen then for you where are you going
13:41
yeah we’re we have a list of areas that
13:46
we feel our gifts can be needed if we
13:49
return to Ghana and help that youth
13:52
group that we met with in 2018 help them
13:57
grow more different types of mushrooms
13:59
or if we return to water Mottola and
14:03
help the dragon fruit farm start an
14:06
herbal soap business we’re looking at
14:09
different places across the world that
14:11
we as US citizens and I’m speaking for
14:15
myself my generation you know we’ve
14:18
really done some damage in certain areas
14:21
so rusty and I are looking at building
14:23
relationships in some of these
14:25
geographic communities that could use
14:29
some extra help and so we haven’t
14:31
decided exactly where that’s going to be
14:34
we’re hoping vision 2020 occurs the
14:38
first in January so during this process
14:41
we’ll be looking at opportunities of how
14:45
we can serve others somewhere across the
14:47
world okay well I’m gonna interrupt you
14:49
there and say that you are listening to
14:51
when the biomass hits the wind turbine
14:53
with Jay and Annie Warmke reminding
14:55
you as we do all the time Annie it is
14:57
the end of the world as we know it and
14:59
thank thank God and today we’re speaking
15:01
with Claire Orner and she is co-owner
15:05
along with her husband rusty of quiet
15:08
Creek herb farm and school of country
15:11
living in Brookville Pennsylvania so and
15:13
we’re talking about creating a
15:15
not-for-profit entity around your farmer
15:18
homestead I know we’ve referred to your
15:20
place as a farm but I guess I would I
15:23
would kind of I don’t know it doesn’t
15:26
strike me as a traditional farm in any
15:28
stretch of the imagination I mean you’re
15:30
not out planting corn and soybeans and
15:34
yeah no but that’s a misnomer I mean
15:38
lots of us are farmers and we aren’t
15:41
growing soybeans as a week so tell us
15:43
tell us a little bit about your crops
15:46
I mean I mean you do a lotta education
15:48
but I know you grow things as well yeah
15:51
so to educate our school groups and
15:56
beyond
15:56
we have display gardens with all types
15:59
of edible flowers and culinary herbs
16:02
medicinal herbs we have a mushroom farm
16:06
with shiitake and nameko lion’s mane
16:10
reishi maitake so all aspects as a farm
16:14
can be a part of the curriculum
16:17
my son led fifth graders today on a
16:21
nature trail and they planted trees the
16:25
Game Commission here in Pennsylvania
16:26
wants to get all different kinds of
16:29
trees out there as feeder plants for the
16:31
wildlife so the kids you know how better
16:34
to mitigate climate change than to be
16:36
out planting trees and really enjoying
16:39
the outdoors so we also have two high
16:43
tunnels where we grow a lot of hot
16:45
weather herbs basil lemon grass lemon
16:47
verbena our peppers both sweet and hot
16:51
all kinds of tomatoes and then all those
16:54
vegetables or herbs or edible flowers
16:58
they’re then brought back into the farm
17:02
setting as value-added products that are
17:05
available in our shop or as as meals so
17:09
often any of our classes people come and
17:12
then they have a farm-to-table luncheon
17:15
or dinner maybe part of the curriculum
17:17
is to create it or maybe they go out in
17:22
the woods and they harvest wild edible
17:24
mushrooms and different plants and then
17:27
they bring it back and I prepare it
17:29
while they go out and learn more so
17:32
those are some of the so-called crops
17:34
both foraging wildcrafting and then
17:38
cultivated in display gardens and high
17:41
tunnels and you’ve also integrated some
17:44
other interesting aspects of sustainable
17:46
living I know you have a straw bale
17:48
addition to your to your barn that’s
17:51
nice you’ve got solar array a wind
17:53
turbine I think it’s pretty cool The
17:55
Beehive and the in the wall of the
17:58
shop that you have and well maybe you
18:01
could talk a little bit about that kind
18:03
of a partnership because you’re talking
18:05
about doing these different projects but
18:07
the solar array was a project that we
18:10
worked on together and had had a kind of
18:13
a partnership and maybe we could talk a
18:15
little bit about that oh yes to find you
18:19
to Jay and Annie at pasa I’m gonna say
18:23
maybe four to five years ago you both
18:26
were there as speakers with the
18:30
Pennsylvania Association for sustainable
18:32
AG and we were just so excited to see
18:36
what you were doing and then knowing
18:39
that you are true educators in so many
18:42
areas and renewable energy solar arrays
18:47
are one of your specialties so I think
18:50
we had a connection and Anna you reached
18:54
out to us and we were thrilled to be
18:57
able to host Jay here for is it two or
19:01
three workshops now yeah I think we’ve
19:03
had three so far yeah and we have
19:06
another one planned this summer we’re so
19:08
excited middle of July and so your
19:11
five-day workshop really gives people
19:15
the inside information you make it
19:19
enjoyable it’s just amazing and people
19:22
walk away with their certification they
19:24
can be employed or in our case as farm
19:28
owners home owners be able to do an
19:32
installation with with that knowledge
19:35
that you’ve given us your students yeah
19:39
so we’re so excited and unbelievable the
19:42
cost has come down tremendously Jay
19:45
you’re gonna have to really crunch some
19:47
numbers for me but I’ll just make a
19:48
comparison we we myself and one of my
19:52
interns we wrote an energy harvest grant
19:54
and we able to get the funds to put in a
19:57
small turbine you know 2.5 kilowatt
20:01
capacity and a to small arrays two point
20:04
six kilowatt capacity and that cost was
20:10
high price
20:12
and what I want to share with you is
20:14
what Ju helped us put in it was about a
20:18
four point two kilowatt solar array that
20:21
cost was about a third of the cost that
20:25
we used this funding from the energy
20:30
harvest grant and that was in 2009 so
20:33
jr. you’ve seen things just drop every
20:35
year oh yeah yeah yeah we we put we put
20:39
in a 3.75 kW array at our farm in 2014
20:46
and just the cost of materials was
20:48
around $12,000 and in 2018 2019 now
20:53
we’re able to get the same material for
20:56
in the four thousand to five thousand
20:58
dollar range so the crisis is
21:01
dramatically lower although I’ll tell
21:03
quick look cute story I know after we
21:06
installed the solar array there at your
21:07
place and I was staying in your little
21:09
straw bale cabin and that evening we
21:12
gotten everything hooked together and I
21:14
think you were gone and rusty was still
21:16
there and it was after dark and all of a
21:20
sudden all the electricity went off I
21:24
thought what did we do it was but rusty
21:31
was not on the driveway I was on the
21:33
driveway and he’s looking at me going
21:34
what did you do then fortunately all
21:39
your neighbors had no power either so we
21:41
were very my god the electricity just
21:45
went out what did I do wrong
21:49
oh yeah he makes a project happen and
21:54
he’s totally in I mean you talk about
21:58
someone dedicated to his work anyway
22:00
well let me say that that one thing
22:02
since we’re talking about not-for-profit
22:04
is that and and we are not a
22:07
not-for-profit although sometimes it
22:09
might be not we’re not a profitable no
22:12
that’s not true but what I was going to
22:13
say is our business model which works
22:15
really well with yours because what we
22:18
did with the solar project was to say
22:21
alright we’re going to work with us
22:23
we’re going to teach this class but
22:25
you’re gonna help us and you’re going to
22:27
market the class and you’re going to
22:28
host people and give us a workspace to
22:32
teach the class and then we shared a
22:33
portion of the revenue from the
22:37
registration so that to me is a
22:40
different model than how most people are
22:42
working is different in that we were
22:44
able to work with you and we had the
22:46
leeway to do it but also in return you
22:48
worked with us as a for-profit and it
22:50
wasn’t a grant or anything like that and
22:52
I think that’s valuable for people in
22:55
the future to be thinking about in any
22:57
kind of business setting or
22:58
not-for-profit is their businesses out
23:01
there like us who really want to have
23:03
these kind of partnerships with groups
23:05
who are really trying to look at
23:07
sustainability and how to get the word
23:09
out about living differently and that
23:12
just is a great partnership oh
23:15
absolutely and if if there are any
23:18
businesses out there listening take this
23:21
opportunity and run with it because Jay
23:25
and Annie are true professionals they
23:27
make things happen
23:29
knowledgeable I can’t say enough about
23:32
what you two can do actually we’re
23:34
really funny
23:35
that’s the checks in the mail class my
23:48
son and my husband are not Mars a math
23:52
savvy you know I mean they’re both very
23:54
creative men I mean they have so many
23:57
gifts but Jay helped them go through the
24:01
math I mean Jay I don’t know if you ever
24:02
if you were a math teacher at one time
24:05
but you made also understandable to them
24:08
they both swear by it and then I know
24:09
because it’s because I just make stuff
24:11
up although I do remember when they put
24:19
the extension on the array I was there
24:21
and and they couldn’t get the computer
24:24
in the array to talk to each other and I
24:27
don’t know who finally got the idea to
24:28
call up the company who then were able
24:31
to like completely fix it because
24:33
they’re like oh we can see what you’re
24:35
doing asking directions yes asking for
24:37
directions that’s what we kept saying
24:39
there was guys you know you need to ask
24:41
for directions then there happen no I go
24:44
away and eat your lunch
24:46
yes I was asking Claire you’re talking
24:49
about working with the Board of
24:51
Directors but you also work with a lot
24:52
of volunteers and and interns you called
24:55
some people apprentices I don’t know if
24:57
that’s your term for interns are or if
24:59
that’s yeah interchangeable sure yeah so
25:02
so what kind of challenges what kind of
25:04
rewards have you seen in all of that
25:06
yeah it’s always been very rewarding our
25:12
apprentices become part of our family
25:14
and I know you have the same situation
25:17
at your farm in Ohio you know people
25:20
come back they want to find out what’s
25:24
going on they want to continue to
25:26
volunteer or they stay in touch you know
25:28
and they start other farms and and they
25:30
just share their successes with you so
25:34
you know working with with humans we all
25:36
know we all have there’s the challenge
25:42
Claire all those humans yeah yes as we
25:47
know so I know I can be quirky and hard
25:50
to work with sometimes just like anyone
25:52
else so working through human dynamics
25:56
personal relationships can be
25:58
challenging the nice thing is we don’t
26:02
do any money exchange and so it’s room
26:06
and board and any education along the
26:09
way so it’s it’s a nice model that I
26:13
like it may not be for everyone but I’m
26:15
really happy with it right with our new
26:18
stewards they’re they’re they’re
26:20
compensated rusty and I will step out
26:22
and they will step in and they will have
26:25
a payroll I I wanted to tell you that
26:28
this is same model that we have and we
26:30
really believe in it because as far as
26:32
the interns and stuff because we’re
26:35
investing in young people and the
26:38
reality is when when people go to
26:40
college or university they the
26:42
university or college doesn’t apologize
26:44
for charging tuition and so the fact
26:48
that you know you’re working for food
26:50
and labor and edge
26:52
it makes complete sense now there’s
26:55
ownership building yeah yeah and I just
26:59
did a webinar with a national group
27:02
where we talked about internships and
27:04
they sent in their questions ahead of
27:06
time and every question was about
27:08
compensation and Liability and I said
27:11
look this isn’t the work this isn’t the
27:13
webinar for that we’re going to talk
27:14
about how you actually run a really
27:16
great internship program where they’re
27:19
not your slaves and so I didn’t our
27:22
family yeah that’s right that it’s
27:24
really about education and sharing and
27:27
partnership and everything so anyway so
27:29
we’re coming to the close and I wanted
27:31
to ask you what’s the best advice you
27:33
ever received and let’s make this around
27:38
farming ourselves definitely well I
27:43
think I can sum it up around farming my
27:47
best advice that I’ll pass forward take
27:50
time off every week for yourself your
27:56
partner your family your friends and
28:00
really give yourself some downtime okay
28:04
thank you all right well you’ve been
28:09
listening to when the biomass hits the
28:11
wind turbine with Jay and Annie Warmke
28:13
and Claire Orner today we want to thank
28:15
Adam rich our producer and thank you for
28:18
spending just a little bit of time with
28:19
us into your grandmother hopefully
28:21
probably told you Annie the secret to us
28:23
happy and sustainable life is play nice
28:26
with others clean up your own mess and J
28:28
eat your vegetables
28:57
[Music]
29:03
you can find more information on living
29:05
sustainably in our unsustainable world
29:08
at Blue Rock station calm
29:14
you
29:15
[Music]